Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
FENWICK7

DQ or a WARNING

Recommended Posts

At a very large .22 steel match, an out of state lady was

DQ'd for the match on her first run. The RO said she 

swept her hand while removing the pistol from its'

case after receiving her "load and make ready"comand.

I would have rather seen a warning of at most a stage

DQ. The RO wouldnt budge and the Match director said

it was not his call. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DQ all the way.  Safety rules are not there to be given warnings.  I understand the idea of giving a warning and have seen it done.  But, a match is not the place to start learning safety rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only two ways of thinking about this - I've shot at more than a dozen different

clubs, and it's equally divided.

 

There are "rules" people, and there are "people" people.

 

Some RO's issue warnings and discussions, others insist on DQ's.

 

No real answer - only two opposing viewpoints.

 

I fall firmly onto the "warning - discussion" side of it.

 

I've seen too many people DQ'd for breaking rules, but NOT coming close

to endangering anyone - and I've seen shooters not become DQ'd because

they are MD/RO's, or M level shooters.

 

Rules are meant to teach us about safety - but sometimes breaking a rule

does NOT endanger anyone - good time for a lesson, rather than a DQ.

 

Flame on ....   :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, it's a DQ..  Didn't say if the lady was a new shooter or not but this is one of the reasons why we have mandatory safety briefings for our clubs new shooters each match.  If it was truly a sweep,  rule broken, no argument..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious if it was a hard case, pistol sleeve, soft zipper case? I have been warned when using a zippered softcase or told I’m sweeping myself, I’m like I have to unzip the case to get pistol. What do most people use for .22 pistols since not many holsters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At my home club, the match director makes the final call.  All questionable calls fall on the MD for final judgement.  If that MD didn't want to make the call....Well I'll stop there before I get in trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DQ... sorry. Had a ND this weekend at our match and seen 2 people shoot themselves. 1 in their hand. 

 

Safety is not something to play with. 

19304.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG!!  Was that necessary?  I suppose everyone needs a visual reminder sometimes, but wowsers!

 

There is a fellow on the PARAcast podcast whose motto is, "Just don't point the gun at me and I won't DQ you."  That attitude goes too far, but a new shooter, muzzling themselves getting an empty gun out of a case during Make Ready, perhaps should be given a warning.  Now, muzzling oneself during, say, a prepare for second string, while a gun is actually hot, would be automatic.  (I've seen a newbie drop a mag between strings then absentmindedly reach for the mag with a loaded gun in the other hand.)

Edited by CHLChris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CHLChris said:

OMG!!  Was that necessary?  I suppose everyone needs a visual reminder sometimes, but wowsers!

 

Yes. 100% necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone complains about being DQ'd when sweeping themselves, just show them this picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2018 at 7:32 AM, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Flame on ....   :) 

 

I do not get upset at anyone but me when I do something stupid and need to be dq'd . 

 

I do get upset when I see somebody who will not call a dq when a safety rule is broken, I think it puts all of the people who are trying to follow the rules in a bad light. 

 

That is not a flame, but if I'm on your squad and you are not enforcing the safety rules then I'm going to change squads if possible or else just go home. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never shot a steel challenge or similar match but,  WOW !

Sweeping your hand while, uncasing an EMPTY gun is a DQ ? (assuming I read that correctly)

Yet,

Sweeping your leg/foot, while drawing a HOT gun from a holster is OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

 if I'm on your squad and you are not enforcing the safety rules,  I'm going to  go home. 

 

Fortunately, I'm NOT an RO - my hearing is too poor - don't want to endanger

anyone because I didn't hear something that it was important for me to hear.    :( 

 

I understand your sentiment, completely - I'll put YOU down on the "rules" side of the equation :) 

and continue to disagree, on a case by case basis, respectfully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I not with the DQ on removing a (presumably unloaded) gun from a case.  Of course, each episode is different but that seems to be really unusual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you know the gun was empty? 1st stage could have brought it from home loaded. Just because nothing happened doesn't make the DQ go away.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I don't know and Fenwick7 did not say - one way or the other.  

 

If it was unloaded I don't agree with the DQ.

 

If it was loaded I would then agree with the DQ.

Edited by Steve RA
left out a letter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, toothandnail said:

Never shot a steel challenge or similar match but,  WOW !

Sweeping your hand while, uncasing an EMPTY gun is a DQ ? (assuming I read that correctly)

Yet,

Sweeping your leg/foot, while drawing a HOT gun from a holster is OK.

 

It is definitely an adjustment and a different mindset. Risks that can not be eliminated without pretty much eliminating the sports (drawing, running with a loaded gun, etc) are allowed and some of the risks allowed can be or seem to be more severe than some of the risks that can be eliminated. 

 

Probably at the end of the day you consider the rules and then decide whether or not you want to play the games.

 

For the case at hand, what percentage of accidental shootings are from guns presumed to be unloaded? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, the RO should have checked the gun to see what condition it was in (loaded or unloaded) before issuing a warning or a DQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DQ... Rule #1 " All Guns are Always Loaded".. new shooter or not. RO could have coached the shooter through the make ready process if she was in fact new to the game. People don't forget the lesson of the DQ.. ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Makdaddy said:

People don't forget the lesson of the DQ.. ever.

 

The rest of the squad and the people on other squads that become aware of it don't either, sometimes 1 dq gets you 10 - 30 people who are safer shooters. 

 

And a dq is not a big deal, you get it, you learn, that is it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don’t DQ people for inserting loaded guns into a DOH pointing into their leg. We don’t force people to walk around with cased guns pointing at the ground. Considering unzipping a case sweeping and a DQ is a stretch for a new shooter IMO. If the gun was otherwise safe I would have given a warning.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP says DQ occurred while REMOVING the pistol from it's case, not while it was being unzipped, big difference IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, L3324temp said:

We don’t DQ people for inserting loaded guns into a DOH pointing into their leg. We don’t force people to walk around with cased guns pointing at the ground. Considering unzipping a case sweeping and a DQ is a stretch IMO for a new shooter.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

She wasn't DQd for "unzipping a case".   It was for sweeping her hand while removing the gun from the case.   

 

None of the actions mentioned above are DQs under the rules in Chapter 10.  

 

Sweeping the body is specifically a DQ if done during a course of fire (10.5.5).  

 

If done outside the COF (e.g., in a Safety Area), what rule does it come under?  General violation of safety rules  (10.3.1), like Cooper's rules #1 and #2?  Unsafe gun handling? 

 

Myself,  I believe it's inherently unsafe to sweep yourself, and it's not hard to keep from doing it.  Are you going to have two (or more) different safety rules,  for different occasions?  Are you sure it's unloaded?  No mag,  but one in the chamber?  Are you so confident that you'd point the gun at yourself and pull the trigger?  Really? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...