FENWICK7 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 At a very large .22 steel match, an out of state lady was DQ'd for the match on her first run. The RO said she swept her hand while removing the pistol from its' case after receiving her "load and make ready"comand. I would have rather seen a warning of at most a stage DQ. The RO wouldnt budge and the Match director said it was not his call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackinSD Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 DQ all the way. Safety rules are not there to be given warnings. I understand the idea of giving a warning and have seen it done. But, a match is not the place to start learning safety rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Only two ways of thinking about this - I've shot at more than a dozen different clubs, and it's equally divided. There are "rules" people, and there are "people" people. Some RO's issue warnings and discussions, others insist on DQ's. No real answer - only two opposing viewpoints. I fall firmly onto the "warning - discussion" side of it. I've seen too many people DQ'd for breaking rules, but NOT coming close to endangering anyone - and I've seen shooters not become DQ'd because they are MD/RO's, or M level shooters. Rules are meant to teach us about safety - but sometimes breaking a rule does NOT endanger anyone - good time for a lesson, rather than a DQ. Flame on .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Unfortunately, it's a DQ.. Didn't say if the lady was a new shooter or not but this is one of the reasons why we have mandatory safety briefings for our clubs new shooters each match. If it was truly a sweep, rule broken, no argument.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Curious if it was a hard case, pistol sleeve, soft zipper case? I have been warned when using a zippered softcase or told I’m sweeping myself, I’m like I have to unzip the case to get pistol. What do most people use for .22 pistols since not many holsters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 At my home club, the match director makes the final call. All questionable calls fall on the MD for final judgement. If that MD didn't want to make the call....Well I'll stop there before I get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99mpower Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 DQ... sorry. Had a ND this weekend at our match and seen 2 people shoot themselves. 1 in their hand. Safety is not something to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) OMG!! Was that necessary? I suppose everyone needs a visual reminder sometimes, but wowsers! There is a fellow on the PARAcast podcast whose motto is, "Just don't point the gun at me and I won't DQ you." That attitude goes too far, but a new shooter, muzzling themselves getting an empty gun out of a case during Make Ready, perhaps should be given a warning. Now, muzzling oneself during, say, a prepare for second string, while a gun is actually hot, would be automatic. (I've seen a newbie drop a mag between strings then absentmindedly reach for the mag with a loaded gun in the other hand.) Edited January 15, 2018 by CHLChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, CHLChris said: OMG!! Was that necessary? I suppose everyone needs a visual reminder sometimes, but wowsers! Yes. 100% necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 If anyone complains about being DQ'd when sweeping themselves, just show them this picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 7:32 AM, Hi-Power Jack said: Flame on .... I do not get upset at anyone but me when I do something stupid and need to be dq'd . I do get upset when I see somebody who will not call a dq when a safety rule is broken, I think it puts all of the people who are trying to follow the rules in a bad light. That is not a flame, but if I'm on your squad and you are not enforcing the safety rules then I'm going to change squads if possible or else just go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Never shot a steel challenge or similar match but, WOW ! Sweeping your hand while, uncasing an EMPTY gun is a DQ ? (assuming I read that correctly) Yet, Sweeping your leg/foot, while drawing a HOT gun from a holster is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said: if I'm on your squad and you are not enforcing the safety rules, I'm going to go home. Fortunately, I'm NOT an RO - my hearing is too poor - don't want to endanger anyone because I didn't hear something that it was important for me to hear. I understand your sentiment, completely - I'll put YOU down on the "rules" side of the equation and continue to disagree, on a case by case basis, respectfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I not with the DQ on removing a (presumably unloaded) gun from a case. Of course, each episode is different but that seems to be really unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpbaer Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Do you know the gun was empty? 1st stage could have brought it from home loaded. Just because nothing happened doesn't make the DQ go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 hours ago, 99mpower said: Quoted for awesomeness. I bet it got that guy laid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 He’d have to. He’s not taking care of it himself lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) No, I don't know and Fenwick7 did not say - one way or the other. If it was unloaded I don't agree with the DQ. If it was loaded I would then agree with the DQ. Edited January 16, 2018 by Steve RA left out a letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, toothandnail said: Never shot a steel challenge or similar match but, WOW ! Sweeping your hand while, uncasing an EMPTY gun is a DQ ? (assuming I read that correctly) Yet, Sweeping your leg/foot, while drawing a HOT gun from a holster is OK. It is definitely an adjustment and a different mindset. Risks that can not be eliminated without pretty much eliminating the sports (drawing, running with a loaded gun, etc) are allowed and some of the risks allowed can be or seem to be more severe than some of the risks that can be eliminated. Probably at the end of the day you consider the rules and then decide whether or not you want to play the games. For the case at hand, what percentage of accidental shootings are from guns presumed to be unloaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 In my opinion, the RO should have checked the gun to see what condition it was in (loaded or unloaded) before issuing a warning or a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makdaddy Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 DQ... Rule #1 " All Guns are Always Loaded".. new shooter or not. RO could have coached the shooter through the make ready process if she was in fact new to the game. People don't forget the lesson of the DQ.. ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Makdaddy said: People don't forget the lesson of the DQ.. ever. The rest of the squad and the people on other squads that become aware of it don't either, sometimes 1 dq gets you 10 - 30 people who are safer shooters. And a dq is not a big deal, you get it, you learn, that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 We don’t DQ people for inserting loaded guns into a DOH pointing into their leg. We don’t force people to walk around with cased guns pointing at the ground. Considering unzipping a case sweeping and a DQ is a stretch for a new shooter IMO. If the gun was otherwise safe I would have given a warning. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makdaddy Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 OP says DQ occurred while REMOVING the pistol from it's case, not while it was being unzipped, big difference IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, L3324temp said: We don’t DQ people for inserting loaded guns into a DOH pointing into their leg. We don’t force people to walk around with cased guns pointing at the ground. Considering unzipping a case sweeping and a DQ is a stretch IMO for a new shooter. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk She wasn't DQd for "unzipping a case". It was for sweeping her hand while removing the gun from the case. None of the actions mentioned above are DQs under the rules in Chapter 10. Sweeping the body is specifically a DQ if done during a course of fire (10.5.5). If done outside the COF (e.g., in a Safety Area), what rule does it come under? General violation of safety rules (10.3.1), like Cooper's rules #1 and #2? Unsafe gun handling? Myself, I believe it's inherently unsafe to sweep yourself, and it's not hard to keep from doing it. Are you going to have two (or more) different safety rules, for different occasions? Are you sure it's unloaded? No mag, but one in the chamber? Are you so confident that you'd point the gun at yourself and pull the trigger? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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