StealthyBlagga Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I'm with JJ and Rookie. IMA rules have been the de facto standard since the sport started proliferating beyond SOF, and variants of IMA rules remain far and away the most popular across the nation. Indeed, both USPSA and UML rules owe a high percentage of their contents to IMA rules. Just think: If it were not for IMA rules being so popular, USPSA would have foisted Hit Factor scoring on us, and as a result multi-gun would likely never have taken off at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 You are right, and rereading it, saying the rules are defunct is wrong. Yes there are plenty of matches using them as a basis for their rules including UML, but who runs the IMG/IMA rules? Is there a point of contact for any changes or clarifications? I know I can ask JJ if I have questions at RM3G about RM3G but I'm talking about for any Yahoo who wants to start a new match or club. Do SMMG and RM3G use the exact same rules? No, they don't and that is okay, but I feel that a standard is one that people can use everywhere. One foot is 12 inches, not the length of my actual foot even though it is darn close. Off topic...I know I'm in the minority, but I personally like hit factor scoring. Major/minor in 3 gun is and was a cluster though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I like pie. If someone puts out a rule book that gives me pie, I will endorse it. Otherwise I will go to the matches that are put on by the guys that do a good job at putting on matches, without regard to what rulebook they choose to follow. There is after all only one really important rule, DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE. After that rule they are all secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Stlhead, I think that is the most important point. It doesn't matter what rules a person uses if they suck at putting a match together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Z, Stealthyblagga at SMM3G on here is a good contact for the IMA rule set. I'm surprised you don't know that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Who is to say that UML rules should be the standard? Why not IMA, or RM3G, or BRM3G, or any other subset of IMA... Just writing a set of rules and giving them a name doesn't make them the "standard"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 JJ, I am now aware that I could talk with Stealthyblagga if I want to talk about SMM3G's version of IMA rules. For example, when I Google IMA rules this is the link that comes up http://smm3gun.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMA-SMM3G-Rules.pdf. It has SMM3G in the header. If I was to run a match by another name I would not want to print that out and hand it to the competitors. Is there a copy out there that is not match specific? Nobody, especially myself is saying that UML rules should be the standard. They are simply out there like any other rules that anyone can use. For example the IMA rules linked above state that they will defer to the 2014 USPSA rules in case of unexpected issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 12 hours ago, ziebart said: [...] For example the IMA rules linked above state that they will defer to the 2014 USPSA rules in case of unexpected issues. Interesting, as the current edition of USPSA MG Rules is 2018 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said: Interesting, as the current edition of USPSA MG Rules is 2018 ... Give us a bit of a break... I believe that the 2018 version is a relatively recent release? I can confirm that a revision to the IMA rules is in the works, and the reference to the USPSA MG rules will be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 What about pie? Will pie be addressed in the update? And a rule that allows any competitor who has reset three stages in a row to punch any competitor who has not done any resetting in the previous stage in the balls (or other place of the punchers choosing in case there are no balls to be punched). Oh and shotgun tubes should be limited to holding 8 rounds in everything but open. And open should be able to use whatever gun they like and as many as they like as long as it is safe. If those rules are not given grave consideration I will not be able to endorse the new boss, because it will be the same as the old boss. WE WILL NOT GET FOOLED AGAIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamspartacus Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, Stlhead said: What about pie? Will pie be addressed in the update? And a rule that allows any competitor who has reset three stages in a row to punch any competitor who has not done any resetting in the previous stage in the balls (or other place of the punchers choosing in case there are no balls to be punched). Oh and shotgun tubes should be limited to holding 8 rounds in everything but open. And open should be able to use whatever gun they like and as many as they like as long as it is safe. If those rules are not given grave consideration I will not be able to endorse the new boss, because it will be the same as the old boss. WE WILL NOT GET FOOLED AGAIN! +1 to what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noexcuses Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Stlhead said: What about pie? Will pie be addressed in the update? And a rule that allows any competitor who has reset three stages in a row to punch any competitor who has not done any resetting in the previous stage in the balls (or other place of the punchers choosing in case there are no balls to be punched). Oh and shotgun tubes should be limited to holding 8 rounds in everything but open. And open should be able to use whatever gun they like and as many as they like as long as it is safe. If those rules are not given grave consideration I will not be able to endorse the new boss, because it will be the same as the old boss. WE WILL NOT GET FOOLED AGAIN! I like this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 13 hours ago, Stlhead said: What about pie? Will pie be addressed in the update? And a rule that allows any competitor who has reset three stages in a row to punch any competitor who has not done any resetting in the previous stage in the balls (or other place of the punchers choosing in case there are no balls to be punched). Oh and shotgun tubes should be limited to holding 8 rounds in everything but open. And open should be able to use whatever gun they like and as many as they like as long as it is safe. If those rules are not given grave consideration I will not be able to endorse the new boss, because it will be the same as the old boss. WE WILL NOT GET FOOLED AGAIN! Me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Stlhead, I'm not sure about the ball punching, but I like the spirit. People who don't reset are unsportsmanlike and effectively cheating IMHO. It is like golfing where everyone has to walk the course. If they rode a cart then it become easier for them. There is a provision for a 30 second penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct in UML. In other rule sets it is a DQ and I feel like most people that deserve correction don't need to be DQ'd at first but they need some sort of corrective action beyond a stern talking to. Of course if they continue to be dicks then sure DQ them. I like the 8 round tubes but I am in the minorty on that. No need for a 10 foot gun in "tactical" unless you are putting a bayonet on it. Not sure about the pie update. Who is responsible for making it? How much does each person get? Most importantly what kind is it? I am partial to rhubarb myself. Should we make the shooter eat it on the clock before shooting their first stage? Just thought of another good rule, the beer finish. At the end of the last stage the shooter must chug a beer. We can get some O'Douls or root beer for those underage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWBaldree Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Beer plays havoc with my stomach. Will we be able to substitute margaritas? If need be, as a procedural, you can require the cocktail to include a rainbow umbrella.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Margaritas and beer are all well and good, but for those on a diet...you will need Vodka and mio or something similar...I just found out Vodka and Tequila are your diet alcoholic beverages...and just want to be fair to everyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 And why would you need to be on a diet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Benelli Chick said: Margaritas and beer are all well and good, but for those on a diet...you will need Vodka and mio or something similar...I just found out Vodka and Tequila are your diet alcoholic beverages...and just want to be fair to everyone!!! When did you start drinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWBaldree Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I just found out Vodka and Tequila are your diet alcoholic beverages...and just want to be fair to everyone!!! Wait, what? Tequila is now Diet Tequila? I can have more and still lose weight? You, Miss, are a goddess. Surely a temple is being built in your honor somewhere, right now, as I type this out.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 3 hours ago, JWBaldree said: Wait, what? Tequila is now Diet Tequila? I can have more and still lose weight? You, Miss, are a goddess. Surely a temple is being built in your honor somewhere, right now, as I type this out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Wasn't me...I heard it from 5, count 'em 5 women at SHOT SHOW and they are all losing weight or are so skinny already!!! I know! Wow!!! Epiphany time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Dan Sierpina said: When did you start drinking? I haven't...but it's good to know...because lately, I am feeling like it might be time to start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Vodka and Mio is okay, have to replace the electrolytes lost. Diets are for those that don't 3gun. It's not diet metal after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 2018-01-25 at 3:25 PM, Rookie said: Give us a bit of a break... I believe that the 2018 version is a relatively recent release? I can confirm that a revision to the IMA rules is in the works, and the reference to the USPSA MG rules will be updated. Giving breaks cuts two ways ... I believe the previously referenced 2014 rules was most properly a reference to the HG rules ... The previous MG rules were dated in 2015. (Pickin' nits and grinnin' ... no harm meant!) Nevertheless ... I still find it interesting that, although many folks malign the USPSA rule set, it pretty much always becomes the standard for everyone else to refer to when the "other" rules don't cover something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 11 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said: ...I believe the previously referenced 2014 rules was most properly a reference to the HG rules ... The previous MG rules were dated in 2015. (Pickin' nits and grinnin' ... no harm meant!) Nevertheless ... I still find it interesting that, although many folks malign the USPSA rule set, it pretty much always becomes the standard for everyone else to refer to when the "other" rules don't cover something. You are both correct. IMA rules previously made reference to 2014 USPSA Multigun rules. The actual document title was "USPSA Rifle, Shotgun and Multigun rules (provisional) February 1, 2014". However, those rules were only ever provisional in status, and so they went through a revision process in 2015. Never the less, the title remained the same. We don't malign USPSA rules at all. They are the gold standard for match administration, and I was really hoping this revision of USPSA rules would have enough common sense and flexibility baked into it that we could start using them, but alas not this time around. Unfortunately, this handgun-centric organization still can't quite get is arms around multigun, and consequently we have decided to stick with IMA and cross-reference to the many good parts of USPSA when it makes sense (no point in reinventing the wheel). When we publish our updated rules, you will see the list of exceptions we had to include because we just don't see eye-to-eye with the USPSA rules committee on some important aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said: [...] When we publish our updated rules, you will see the list of exceptions we had to include because we just don't see eye-to-eye with the USPSA rules committee on some important aspects. I would be interested to see the list of these when they become finalized ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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