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Is this a new multigun group with their own rules? 

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Shot the new UML target in a match late last year. Took a little more aiming, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

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Yup, its another multigun groupwith its own rules. While you can't please everyone they are working to be more inclusive of outlaw matches. Ideally the goal is to get more matches on the same page when it comes to rules. If we can get it to UML, USPSA, and 3GN that would be a big step forward compared to the dozens of rule sets out there now.

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My club MD Pete started UML with us quite a long time ago on a club level and people really liked it and it grew and grew. Yes it has its own set of rules. I'm a big fan. United shooting sports league which includes UML is supposed to be up and running soon as well. Check out the Facebook page and he does live videos giving updates and more info.

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My first question is : what for?

Secondly, it has a rule set that is a whole lot like USPSA.  Again, why?

Not interested.  If a particular match don't suit your fancy, then don't go.

As to this genre, I shant go.

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Several of our clubs locally are going to the UML rules. Very inclusive of all shooters and weapons. Trying to spread the sport out particularly to PCC and non shotgun shooters.

 

Shot one this weekend. Dissident Arms. Fun match, could include my grand daughter who is just getting into 3-gun & not quite ready for 3-guns. She shot her PCC for the whole match and had a blast. Scoring is a little different and all of the different weapons and ways to shoot will take some time to figure out. Seems to be more difficult for the MD's to design stages & wtie SD as you have to figure out all of the different ways to shoot it. Need steel targets where you can't use clays.

 

Really liked it and glad to see them opening up the matches to all kinds of shooters. 

 

gerritm

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I like two of the main motivations:  be more inclusive and assist with ease of setup.

 

Pete is working hard to help MD make better matches.  By making smaller targets (other target styles still allowed), you can bring them closer, and therefore shorten reset time.  Also,  by giving people option to shoot matches, we lower the barriers to entry a little bit, which is a great thing for everyone.

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2 hours ago, gerritm said:

Several of our clubs locally are going to the UML rules. Very inclusive of all shooters and weapons. Trying to spread the sport out particularly to PCC and non shotgun shooters.

 

Shot one this weekend. Dissident Arms. Fun match, could include my grand daughter who is just getting into 3-gun & not quite ready for 3-guns. She shot her PCC for the whole match and had a blast. Scoring is a little different and all of the different weapons and ways to shoot will take some time to figure out. Seems to be more difficult for the MD's to design stages & wtie SD as you have to figure out all of the different ways to shoot it. Need steel targets where you can't use clays.

 

Really liked it and glad to see them opening up the matches to all kinds of shooters. 

 

gerritm

Shot this match as well. Really fast paced and easy to reset. Looking forward to next months. UML seems pretty streamlined compared to some others out there. I think it would be good for the sport to unify under one umbrella and include the 2x4, PCC,etc.

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So in 2x4 division, can you use tac ops rifle, open shotgun and carry optics pistol? It says use at least two from the selection?

 

Interesting.

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I think next month I'll show up with a PCC and shoot what they tell me to shoot.

 

You know, keep it simple.

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From what we run here as of right now all 2x4 is all open. So yes you can run what you stated but the other guys in same division could be running everything open. I believe Pete said the 2x4 tac ops was going to be started as well in which no you couldn't run anything open.

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Thinking seriously of shooting 2x4 open next month. Really like the options.

 

Bill, Juliann shot it all with a PCC and it is set up you pretty much shoot everything except the long range. They are using lots of steel. No clays. She had a blast. Jungle run for instance was shotgun, pcc, or pistol option. Doable by all 3. 

 

Yes, have to run at least 2 of the guns in 2x4 division on each stage and shoot at least 3 targets with second gun.

 

It does take some thinking on MD stage design for dump buckets. 

 

gerritm

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I like the idea of the 2x4 division but think that adding a 2x4 tac division is stupid, just waters down the participation into two divisions. 

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I think the biggest complaint was that the majority of guys shooting 2x4 were running tac ops so they were at a disadvantage against a small group of guys that could have a totally open set up in the same division. I can understand why they would add it but yea that's quite a few divisions already but I think splitting it into 2 will kill the open side and the vast majority will be tac ops. At least from what I see as theres substantially more tac shooters than open around here

 

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One of the points mentioned at last years Cedar Valley Multigun (a recent convert to UMG) was that you need to rethink the overall winner concept and have division winners.  Change of paradigm.

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I would like to see the hot reholster go away completely.  Sure, I can do it, but there are new people that are coming into the sport who shouldn’t try on the clock.  There is one club that sets stages to encourage hot reholsters because they are all operators, and if you shoot yourself your a dumb ass.  I think they fail to grasp how much of a shit storm they are leaving themselves open to.  

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17 minutes ago, dogtired said:

One of the points mentioned at last years Cedar Valley Multigun (a recent convert to UMG) was that you need to rethink the overall winner concept and have division winners.  Change of paradigm.

Lame. Might as well call everybody a winner.

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I think they are trying to have competitors with like equipment compete with one another and walk the prize table based on division finishes.  Its not the trophy for everyone.

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I am going to try UML matches. Looking at 2x4 and all PCC.

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On 1/9/2018 at 7:42 AM, 1chota said:

My first question is : what for?
...There are many clubs running outlaw rules and this is to try and provide them one set of rules they can get behind. There is also a few more reasons on the Facebook pages but that is the simple answer. If we as 3gunners start using the same rules then it helps everyone who then does not need to read a new rulebook for every match they go to.


 

Secondly, it has a rule set that is a whole lot like USPSA.  Again, why?
USPSA's rule set is thick and most MDs do not like being stifled by it. Many shooters do not like how USPSA runs MG matches and feel that they will get DQd. That said I have shot the MG nationals and enjoy it every year I am able to attend, but I have not shot any other USPSA MG matches. There are plenty of clubs running "USPSA like" matches and not paying the fees to USPSA robbing them of their name and intellectual property.

 

Not interested.  If a particular match don't suit your fancy, then don't go.

As to this genre, I shant go.

 

You are correct. There are so many great matches out there now that I have trouble deciding which ones I will be able to attend.

 

Thanks everyone for the comments. I will try to address each one individually even if you didn't ask a question. UML isn't for everyone and that is okay. Pete is simply trying to make it closer to what the majority of people want so more folks can rally behind it. It is not meant to push out USPSA or 3 Gun Nation. Personally, I really like the way USPSA does things, but they are not and will not be what the majority of those running outlaw matches want.



iamspartacus

I agree, 2x4 is based on MGM Ironman's Trooper division where anything went. We had to trim that down, but so many people loved the run what you brung "no limits" division. If you want to shoot tac ops equipment then shoot tac ops. Besides for $35 you can have a 16 round shotgun which you will rarely use. Put a bipod on the rifle and BOOM! open rifle :) Watch the video from Max shooting the Safariland match last year and I think he used the PCC and either pistol or rifle on most if not all the stages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS4La7tDHHQ

 

 

dogtired

I thought CVMG used regular division wins? Maybe they were talking about the categories such as high military/lady


bmiller

I agree that hot reholstering is not for inexperienced, but since it is allowed at so many matches including USPSA pistol matches it is hard to prohibit it. FN had to DQ a guy on his first stage because he reholstered on his first stage. Not sure if he wasn't aware that it was prohibited or if he just forgot. There are provisions for shooters not following stage procedures and if the stage description calls for a pistol to be abandoned in a bucket then the competitor will get a procedural for failure to comply. It won't stop everyone, but it will discourage those people that think they will save a second verses putting it in a bucket.

 

 

 

 

 

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On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎09 at 8:42 AM, 1chota said:

My first question is : what for?

Secondly, it has a rule set that is a whole lot like USPSA.  Again, why?

Not interested.  If a particular match don't suit your fancy, then don't go.

As to this genre, I shant go.

Not terribly surprising ... Pete was a member of the USPSA committee that wrote the current set of USPSA MG rules which were recently released.  He had access to ALL of the draft material used to develop those rules for the last two years.

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That is true, but not much changed with the USPSA rules. Besides that, as much as some people like to poo poo on USPSA, most matches are roughly based around them or the defunct IMG rules.

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Kinda harsh saying the IMG rules are defunct, they are still being maintained  and updated and there are several matches, including SMM3G, that use them...and most of the older outlaw matches started with them. So saying they are defunct is not true.

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23 hours ago, ziebart said:

That is true, but not much changed with the USPSA rules. Besides that, as much as some people like to poo poo on USPSA, most matches are roughly based around them or the defunct IMG rules.

 

18 hours ago, RiggerJJ said:

Kinda harsh saying the IMG rules are defunct, they are still being maintained  and updated and there are several matches, including SMM3G, that use them...and most of the older outlaw matches started with them. So saying they are defunct is not true.

 

I kinda like to think that the IMG rules are at the leading edge.  In what civilization are they considered "defunct"?

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