Uprange Reloads

[stick]

22 hours ago, Matt1 said:

That looks like high risk to me.

My preferred method of reloading in this situation is to drop the mag as I’m turning to run uprange (trailing the gun behind me). Grab the mag in the other hand while I’m running. When you get to the next position and turn back, complete the reload.


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+3  

[Hammer002]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:35 PM, Just4FunLP said:

I’ve been practicing it for a few months now, so maybe I’ll make a video of the intire move , and also compare it with the reload before shooting in the new position. 

 

I get it, you put some time and thought into something you wanted to be innovating.  Its not.  Not trying to be mean, but that's dangerous.  Not to mention its bad technique that's slower than the two preferred ways of handling the situation.  Either quickly make the reload on last shot and run, or run to next spot and reload.  Both are faster than what you are doing because you will be running WAY faster due to not contorting yourself while attempting a reload you cant even see properly.  Its dangerous because of all the factors you are ignoring.  If you were able to stay frozen in that exact pose, you are technically legal when seen from the perfect angle, but making people nervous and inviting a DQ from an RO not at that perfect angle cause he too is trying to run uprange.  Not to mention, move a few inches from that perfect pose and its DQ.  Why even chance it on top of it being an inferior technique?  The real problem is you aren't frozen.  You are moving.  Moving without even looking where you are running.  What is most likely to happen when you trip or stumble while running and looking backwards?  Your hands are going to involuntarily come around to break your fall, thus, at best, pointing that gun at everyone uprange, and at worse, and very likely because you are out of control anyway, shooting somebody.  Let it go.

[Just4FunLP]

OK, so if I read between the lines, the consensus seems to lean toward not using this technique. 

[IHAVEGAS]

2 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said:

OK, so if I read between the lines, the consensus seems to lean toward not using this technique. 

 

 

When you admit to any imperfections on the internet there is always overwhelming agreement. 

[MemphisMechanic]

8 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said:

OK, so if I read between the lines, the consensus seems to lean toward not using this technique. 

 

If nothing else, you’re going to HAVE to run slower because freely pumping your arms guarantees a 180 break. So the time savings versus running harder and multi-tasking by loading while turning and setting up is probably not there.

 

And the latter method makes conscious muzzle control while moving agessively much easier.

[Hammer002]

4 hours ago, Just4FunLP said:

OK, so if I read between the lines, the consensus seems to lean toward not using this technique. 

 

I still give u credit for innovation, I just think u might have got attached to something cause of time spent and originality.  The truth is, there are endless tried and true excellent techniques for every situation out there.  Not that something new cant be imagined, but learn what's out there.  I constantly learn the smallest things that unlock huge differences from the better, more seasoned shooters.  There are even some people giving out trade secrets for free on the Internet and Facebook now.  There are amazing things out there to learn that would keep you plenty busy in the dry fire room.  This idea really shouldn't have passed the evaluation process. Maybe cause u weren't aware of the techniques already established for the situation, because in comparison, there's no contest.  Can't tell u how many times I thought I had "the plan" or "a better way" on a course of fire, only to have someone follow and after watching I realize I was wrong.  Or another shooter approaches, snickering, asking why did u do it that way?  Do this.....

[JAFO]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:40 PM, HI5-O said:

I turn and run up range with the pistol off my left shoulder and the muzzle is easily pointed down range. I’m a right handed shooter. 

 

The few times I decided to reload while moving uprange, it was this way.  And only when the uprange position was fairly close by and required moving around a wall where you don't really want to build speed anyway.

[nuidad]

On 1/5/2018 at 8:44 AM, Just4FunLP said:

OK, so if I read between the lines, the consensus seems to lean toward not using this technique. 

J4FLP,

 

It depends on where you are trying to go with this technique.  If you feel it is necessary to accomplish something that is important to you...go for it.  If it is to bring some new competitive technique to the game...you go boy...that's how progress is made.  You, and only you get to decide what is important.  If you believe that spending time on this technique is well spent,  spend the time.  In 5 years, everyone may be teaching this technique and claiming that they perfected it....or??  

 

 

[wtturn]

J4FLP,
 
It depends on where you are trying to go with this technique.  If you feel it is necessary to accomplish something that is important to you...go for it.  If it is to bring some new competitive technique to the game...you go boy...that's how progress is made.  You, and only you get to decide what is important.  If you believe that spending time on this technique is well spent,  spend the time.  In 5 years, everyone may be teaching this technique and claiming that they perfected it....or??  
 
 

I'm frankly not sure how to respond to this kind of post.

Presumably the OP is in the sport to compete and finish well.

Part of making progress in the sport is cultivating the discernment to keep the ideas that work and let the garbage fall to the wayside.

To do that, we need to make value judgments. This type of nonsensical New Age self-affirming feelgoodery is antithetical to the pragmatic mindset that makes a good practical shooter.

There are no secrets, no magic, no mystery, and nothing new under the sun. People have literally written how-to books on reaching the highest levels of the sport.

There is a time and a place to think outside the box and experiment, but the opportunity cost is very high when and if it comes at the expense of more fundamental training.

[Just4FunLP]

Thanks for the encouragement nuidad. 

 

We really don’t think about it much, but for a new shooter, performing a very fast draw and first shot on target is risky.  But, with practice and proper technique, we seem to do it safe enough. 

 

My photo showed me looking back at the mag well, but in reality I’m watching where I’m going. The point of this technique was to cover as much distance as possible.  While you’re running you have plenty of time to wiggle your mag in the pistol, so there’s no reason to drift off coarse.  As I’m coming around the corner to the shooting position the goal is to be done with he mag change, have a good firm grip on the gun, and be ready to immediately break the shot. I’ve proven to myself that it is faster, but only as much as half a second.   Not a lot.

 

The reason I posted this was to see how the community responded.   Was it within the rules?  If so, perhaps it’s just an un-cool thing to do.  I’d sure hate it if I could pull it off flawlessly every time, and someone else tries it and has an accident.   As others stated above, there is a risk of stumbling and hitting the ground with the gun pointed at the spectators.  That’s the best reason for me to set this aside.  

 

It takes quite a bit of practice to learn this, and really very few opportunities to use it in a match.  We’re probably only talking about half a second per match, if that.  I’d be better off using my practice time learning how to achieve the perfect grip every time I come into position.  That would improve my score at every shooting position.   

 

So, the post was worthwhile.  The only problem is that it’s going to take a long time to learn to run with my strong hand trailing behind.  

 

I appreciate all the feedback.  

[pskys2]

The photo is ok, the problem will be at some point before you get completely turned up range you will have to flirt with the 180 line vertically.  A method that purposely goes that close to the 180 is bound to be compromised at some point under match conditions.  And unless you're double jointed I can't imagine how one could not be close to the 180 at some point in the turn.

The other issue is once done you are now running with your wrist/hand cocked down range, which is going to be slower, or at least more awkward, than other methods. And then you have to flirt with the 180 again to engage targets.

Remember if an RO says you broke 180, what he thinks/claims he saw can't be disputed only whether what he saw or thought he saw was a dq'ble offense.

 

If you do get dq'd with it, at least accept it with a smile.

[racerba]

On 1/12/2018 at 12:20 AM, Just4FunLP said:

We really don’t think about it much, but for a new shooter, performing a very fast draw and first shot on target is risky.  But, with practice and proper technique, we seem to do it safe enough. 

 

My photo showed me looking back at the mag well, but in reality I’m watching where I’m going. The point of this technique was to cover as much distance as possible.  While you’re running you have plenty of time to wiggle your mag in the pistol, so there’s no reason to drift off coarse.  As I’m coming around the corner to the shooting position the goal is to be done with he mag change, have a good firm grip on the gun, and be ready to immediately break the shot. I’ve proven to myself that it is faster, but only as much as half a second.   Not a lot.  

1 - It's a risky move where a mistake still puts a round downrange...and you said the key phrase - "proper technique"...flirting with the 180 is not (IMHO) a proper technique.

2 - there's plenty of time to wiggle the mag in while you're running, but you really don't want to spend all that time focusing on inserting the mag...it makes your movement slower...you want to focus on your movement...thereby making your movement faster...you want to seat the mag quickly either before you move or after you move...practice your reloads and your time will be faster, whether you are moving or not...

[Just4FunLP]

pskys2..   Thanks for the feedback.

All true.  As I mentioned above, with some practice you can make it work.  One idea was to tell the RO of my plan so he wouldn't be surprised at what he saw, and he could make a better call.  Also, I have been shooting for a while now, and have a fairly good grasp of the rules, but I wanted to know if there was something in the rules that specifically prohibited me from doing this.  Lastly, I wanted to know about reloading with the pistol over my weak hand shoulder while running uprange because the gun can tip up as far as 11:00...  I've been successful with this weak hand shoulder reload in virtually every match for the last 3 years, but recently someone on my squad told me I needed to "watch" the 180 when I was certain I had done it the way I practiced it a hundred times.  I just want to make sure I fully understand the rules.  

 

If the 180 switch gets flipped in the RO's brain, he's obligated to call it.  Doing something unusual only adds to the confusion.  

 

Conclusion:  If you stumble with your arm trailing behind mostly pointing downrange, you should be able to keep it clearly pointing downrange without any problem.  If you stumble in the while in the position shown the photo it will be a lot harder to keep it downrange, and you could run the risk of actually pointing the muzzle at the spectators while the gun is hitting the ground.  CASE CLOSED! 

 

Other issues:

-There's few instances where it can be used.

-It takes practice (time). 

-It can stress out the RO.

-I really don't like arguing with people in the middle of a match. 

 

The one second gain I might be able to get in each match just isn't worth it, even without the MAJOR safety risk.  The uprange reload over the strong hand shoulder will no longer be in my playbook.    

 

It's now an OFFICIAL UNWRITTEN rule...    

 

Until someone convinces me otherwise, the uprange reload over the weak hand shoulder stays in the playbook.

[happygunner77]

Or when going up range and have to reload, just drop the mag (muzzle downrange) and sprint up while weak hand gets a fresh mag, insert mag when about to stop and engage a target , a lot safer this way and still fast. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by happygunner77