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P.E. Kelley

224 Valkyrie...Long Range AR15!

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15 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Great article, as usual.

 

Thanks, Pat.    :bow:

You are most welcome...thank you for being one of the few who READ them!

I failed to mention it uses 6.8SPC mags and bolt.

 

The editor failed to include my chrono data.

Chronograph data with Federal Premium 90 Sierra Matchking ammunition.
Average Feet Per Second from the Savage MSR15’s
18” 2533
20” 2628
22” 2680

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Thanks Patrick for your videos, always enjoy your perspective.

 

I don't think I've ever seen so many accolades for a new cartridge. Federal seems to have put together a great cartridge and and great marketing plan :).

 

I'm hoping to put together one later this year. Probably a JP barrel. It will be for PRS style matches, might as well go with the 22" to get the most out of the round?

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Great video and super article Pat. I’ve been thinking about building a 6mmAR upper for long range, but after reading your results I might have to take a closer look at the Valkyrie.

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34 minutes ago, IHMSA15151 said:

Great video and super article Pat. I’ve been thinking about building a 6mmAR upper for long range, but after reading your results I might have to take a closer look at the Valkyrie.

Every time I run the numbers both the .224 or 6mm Grendel variants beat the Valkyrie, and you get the Lapua brass option too. I could see why a non handloader would be interested in the .224V though.

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Have you run the numbers on the 224V when handloaded?  Or are you comparing factory ammo to custom one offs?

 

 

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Handloaded wildcats vs. 224V factory ammo numbers. Your right, it may be possible to get more performance out of the 224V when handloading, I guess we'll see when people start pushing it. Case capacity certainly favors the Grendel variants and case shape makes them ideal for long heavy bullets with minimal powder capacity intrusion, so the Grendels look better on paper but that doesn't always hold up in the real world.

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I haven't bought factory ammo (other than rimfire) for over 40 years, so yes, I would be handloading. I was impressed with the data and group size with the factory rounds and figure it could be improved with the many options of powder, primer, barrel twist & length, etc. available to tinker with. If it grows in popularity a bit, I'm sure someone will start making brass. 

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Nice job Pat! I like the custom mobile shooting bench. 

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I'm getting frustrated with my second 6.8 SPC build.  I'm thinking a new 224V barrel and handguard and a few other bits and bobs and I'll be good to go with this.  I'll probably switch to an A2 stock.

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caveat, didn't watch the video (crappy data plan) but this is the cat's meow in ar-15-based guns, but doesn't look competitive against ar-10-based guns (and bolts), right?

 

federal's website is showing 392" drop and 92" 10mph wind drift at 1k and 6.5 creed is way better than that.

 

also, if using for PRS, why not go 24" barrel?

 

http://www.federalpremium.com/224-valkyrie/

 

not trying to knock this, just trying to understand why i'd pick this for LR over a 6.5 creed or the like.  obviously the form factor will be less.

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1 hour ago, davsco said:

caveat, didn't watch the video (crappy data plan) but this is the cat's meow in ar-15-based guns, but doesn't look competitive against ar-10-based guns (and bolts), right?

 

federal's website is showing 392" drop and 92" 10mph wind drift at 1k and 6.5 creed is way better than that.

 

also, if using for PRS, why not go 24" barrel?

 

http://www.federalpremium.com/224-valkyrie/

 

not trying to knock this, just trying to understand why i'd pick this for LR over a 6.5 creed or the like.  obviously the form factor will be less.

 

Small-frame AR-15 based gun instead of a large-framed "AR-10"-based gun. Tons more options available for after-market stuff and none of the BS you encounter when trying to determine whether some new-fangled whiz-bang gadget will work with your particular version of an AR-10-ish gun...

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The 6mm and 6.5 Grendals are ar-15 based.

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Appreciate your post and the info Patrick.    I guess the fact that the .224 V can be run on a small frame AR and recoil is less than the calibers normally run in a large frame AR is a good thing.  Recoil management and being able to spot impacts is critical.   Its certainly a significant step up from .223.   That said, a 6 Creed in an AR10 platform with Sierra 110gr Matchkings w/ a .617 BC is far superior.  Fed likes to compare the Valkyrie to the 6.5 Creed, but most aren't shooting it in a gas gun.  Most have gone to a 6mm variant for recoil management.    I mean if we want to shoot a gas gun in a PRS match, don't you want the best caliber / bullet / recoil combo?  I'm not sure the small frame AR platform, the reduced recoil, and reduced bullet BC is worth it with the V.  I guess it depends on the person and what they plan to do with the rifle.  I may get an upper to mess with, but not seeing the benefits compared to other options.  

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Sierra just released a new 95gr .224 bullet with a .6 BC. No practical use in 223 especially at gas gun mag limits but I'm thinking this may be a game changer for bolt gun guys with fast twisted 22 Creedmoors, 22 Dashers, BR/BRX's etc. or even 22-250's. Same goes for large frame gas guns if people started running hot .224 cartridges in them. I spent half of last night running hypothetical numbers and it really closes the gap on a lot of the 6mm's using 105's, even in the energy department. More to the point of this topic, people have got the Sierra 90SMK above 2900 in the 22 Grendel. If you could get the new 95 to say 2800fps the numbers look insane for a .22 out of a gas gun.

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6 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

Sierra just released a new 95gr .224 bullet with a .6 BC. No practical use in 223 especially at gas gun mag limits but I'm thinking this may be a game changer for bolt gun guys with fast twisted 22 Creedmoors, 22 Dashers, BR/BRX's etc. or even 22-250's. Same goes for large frame gas guns if people started running hot .224 cartridges in them. I spent half of last night running hypothetical numbers and it really closes the gap on a lot of the 6mm's using 105's, even in the energy department. More to the point of this topic, people have got the Sierra 90SMK above 2900 in the 22 Grendel. If you could get the new 95 to say 2800fps the numbers look insane for a .22 out of a gas gun.

 

Thats good info.  Thanks bud. 

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PRS Gas Gun rules have a 800 yard max for distance and a minimum target size that is larger than the bolt gun side.

 

While the handloader has always had the ability to Hot Rod any cartridge and take the time to monkey with wildcats, many of us

just wanna play and factory ammo is a great way to enjoy PRS GAS matches without hassle.

 

I do have a different viewpoint than most as I shoot lots of different games and don't have the time to reload nor the need for more than

maybe 1000 rounds of precision ammo per year.  Buy it and I am done.

 

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i am with p.e. Kelley.  Just want to shoot some gas gun club matches, with factory ammo. My JP  barrel/bolt  is paid for and is supposed to ship mid Jan. Optics will be the new mark 5 ( won a cert) supposed to be available right about the same time.    My home club is core. So i have a great place to put it thru some paces. I will keep progress posted.

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As always, thanks for the info and the good video format Pat.

 

 

Edited by Vespid_Wasp

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I believe the Valkeries advantage will be durability. The  Grendel’s  weakness is its bolt and extractor. Just not enough meat in the bolt face.  I’ve shot mine for the last couple of years at local and regional matches. and have broken extractors twice. Both times during matches  Last match was 3 Gun nation team match, 2 out of three Grendel’s went down with broken extractors. Mine was an AA the other was a JP. Both rifles had a lot of rounds down the tube.  The Valkeries 6.8 bolt has a good bit more steel in the face and should have more longevity.  A broken rifle when your doing well in a match sucks. 

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