Harmon Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Ok i go to the shooters connection website looking for a 2moa dot module for the Cmore... i think the 8 minute dot is too big...but to my disgust they make a 16 MOA dot module! What is this for? lets see at 25 yards your dot would be covering a 4 inch circle(roughly) the only thing i can see that any dot bigger than a 8 would be good for would be really close range hose and go stages...or the steel challenge. but damn! 16 moa, thats a dot for the blind!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhurd Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Works fine for me on pins, and I am not totaly blind yet.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscron2000 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 When I first starting shooting OPEN a couple of years ago, the Cmore came with an 8 min. I was having trouble finding it sometimes and I'm blind. So I swithed to a 12 for a year or so. Now I'm back to a 6. The larger dot helped me out allot. RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Balko Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I know of a high A class open division competitor who uses a dot in the 16 to 20 minute range. He isn't totally blind, but he is color blind. He needs a dot that large as he only picks up the intensity of the dot, not the color. He's very accurate, and always right near the top at our local matches. As a side note, I've seen 20 minute dots used on shotguns that seemed to work pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I used a 12moa for a couple years. C-More made me the aperture and put in a new diode for free after the old one [8moa] lost it's round shape and dimmed out. I picked it up faster just because there's more light total. I liked the 12 for everything except the little round and square plates out past 15 yards. It's difficult to tell yourself that a shot with 1/3 of the dot hanging off the side of the plate is a good shot, but it is. The little voice in your head tells you not to color outside the lines [this is from kindergarden, yes?] and so the big dots end up slowing a lot of people down on tough targets. C-More also cut the legs off a Serendipity and drilled the FlatTop screw holes for free. [TZ frame was too hard to drill holes on both sides] And they sent me 2 more diodes, for free. Great company, very shooter-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I have a Holo sight on my AR It has a 65moa ring that i use for targets out to 25yards. then i use the smaller 1moa dot to about 50yards. The bigger ring isnt as accurate but it covers the 'A' zone at 25yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Ok i go to the shooters connection website but damn! 16 moa, thats a dot for the blind!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HEY!! I resemble that remark!!! Actually, with my compression I can't make out my 8moa and am thinking the 16 might be the trick for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Don't knock it till you try it ... I love my 16 MOA ... I think the loss of precision is minimal when compared to the acquisition aspect's the larger dot allows. I won't be surprised if in the future everyone switches to a 16 MOA or BIGGER ... a 20 MOA dot makes sense to me ... as the A zone is what 5 3/4 inches ... 5 inches at 25 yards ... cover the A zone with the dot ... and on to the next shot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Don't knock it till you try it ... I love my 16 MOA ... I think the loss of precision is minimal when compared to the acquisition aspect's the larger dot allows. I won't be surprised if in the future everyone switches to a 16 MOA or BIGGER ... a 20 MOA dot makes sense to me ... as the A zone is what 5 3/4 inches ... 5 inches at 25 yards ... cover the A zone with the dot ... and on to the next shot ! +1... I shot a 15-min dot Aimpoint for years. Once one works past using the top edge for those (rare) 50-yd paper or long plate shots...it's great...particularly for the up close 'n' personal stuff. One local Master is still using a 20-min dot in a Tasco PDP-4 (? - it's the huge, "coffee can" version) and routinely spanking everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) This is a great topic. I am about to have my Open Gun built. I have terrible vision and like the idea of using a bigger dot, but I have some questions. Do you guys using the bigger dots have problems shooting targets that have overlapping no shoots? Where is your point of aim on targets like that? Does it mess with you to have the dot overlapping on the no shoot? Also I was talking to a friend yesterday that said he thought the bigger dot would have hurt him at Area 2 where they had some pretty far head shots. Another question I have is about the diodes. Does the scope stayed zeroed if you change the diode, or do you have to resight it? What I am asking is can you change it at a match between up close hosefest stages and the 75 yard standard type stages and still stay zeroed? Thanks, Darin Edited February 2, 2006 by BigD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 HEY! Harmon don't be trying to put that 16min dot off on to Steel Challenge shooters...that just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 This is a great topic. I am about to have my Open Gun built. I have terrible vision and like the idea of using a bigger dot, but I have some questions. Do you guys using the bigger dots have problems shooting targets that have overlapping no shoots? Where is your point of aim on targets like that? Does it mess with you to have the dot overlapping on the no shoot?Thanks, Darin I use a 12moa dot and I have no problems with any shot. It is not a problem for me. The only type of shot I can think of where I would use the edge of the dot is on a 50yrd head shot or something like that at a very long range. We shot Merle's Standards the other day and at 35yrds a 12moa dot just about fills the "A" zone(side to side) and I had 12 A's on the target. It is just easier to see for me at speed. Also I was talking to a friend yesterday that said he thought the bigger dot would have hurt him at Area 2 where they had some pretty far head shots. I doubt it would have been a problem. Another question I have is about the diodes. Does the scope stayed zeroed if you change the diode, or do you have to resight it? Yes, you will have to re-zero. What I am asking is can you change it at a match between up close hosefest stages and the 75 yard standard type stages and still stay zeroed I don't think so. Where the heck are you seeing 75yrd standards at?!?!? I have never seen a shot longer than 50yrds at an USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) What I am asking is can you change it at a match between up close hosefest stages and the 75 yard standard type stages and still stay zeroed I don't think so. Where the heck are you seeing 75yrd standards at?!?!? I have never seen a shot longer than 50yrds at an USPSA match. The Texas State Limited had a standards stage that had targets at 25, 50, and 75 yards. I heard an evel rumor from somebody that they were considering a 100 yard target for this year. I hope they let us use our rifles. Edited February 2, 2006 by BigD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I'd like to know what is "practical" about a 75 or 100yrd shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) I don't know of any practicality, but it sure tested the ability of the shooter. It was a par time stage, so on top of the distance, you had a very limited amount of time to put the shots on the target. I think the COF on the 75 yarder was shoot 5, reload and shoot 5 more in 6 seconds. All shots were non penalty misses, so if you wanted to shoot all, only hit a few, you got the points that were on the paper. Most of the time it was a wasted walk down range when it came time to tape for the people in my squad that tried to rush and shoot as many as they could. I took Andy Colglaziers advice and took my time and only shot 4 rounds at it. I hit 2 A's and 2 C's. For me, the stress that was building until it was my time to shoot was unlike field courses. Field courses rock, but I kinda liked shooting that stage. If I had tanked it I'd be telling you how bad I thought it sucked. Edited February 2, 2006 by BigD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I don't know of any practicality, but it sure tested the ability of the shooter. It was a par time stage, so on top of the distance, you had a very limited amount of time to put the shots on the target. I think the COF on the 75 yarder was shoot 5, reload and shoot 5 more in 6 seconds. In *six* seconds you have to shoot 10 shots with a mandatory reload at 75 yards? Y'all have some tough stages down there in Tejas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I don't know of any practicality, but it sure tested the ability of the shooter. It was a par time stage, so on top of the distance, you had a very limited amount of time to put the shots on the target. I think the COF on the 75 yarder was shoot 5, reload and shoot 5 more in 6 seconds. In *six* seconds you have to shoot 10 shots with a mandatory reload at 75 yards? Y'all have some tough stages down there in Tejas. You could shoot as many or as few rounds as you wanted on that stage. You were only scored the points on the targets, and no mikes, but you got a penalty if you took a shot after the second buzzer went off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'd like to know what is "practical" about a 75 or 100yrd shot. Deckard's five shots with his custom Government Model .45 came within inches of stopping Cantwell. He had exhibited enviable marksmanship and coolness under superior fire at 100 yards, and subsequently was awarded the Distinguished Law Enforcement Award by the Illinois Police Association. He just didn't have the hold-over right. No one can blame him. Even then, few police were taught to fire their duty weapons beyond 25 yards and virtually none beyond 50. Today, a quarter century later, it is worse. Fifty yard shooting has all but disappeared from police handgun qualification and there are career cops who have never fired their handguns beyond as little as 15 yards. Ever since I first studied this incident (for an article in Trooper magazine, published under a pseudonym) I've made a point of knowing where to aim my duty sidearm to hit a man-size target out to 100 yards. It was a lesson learned from the brave brother officer with the .45. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._26/ai_90099697 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Good work Flex! Any one ever wonder why iron sighted pistols with fixed sights are set at 50 yards instead of 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I've shot w/ 4, 6, 8, 10, and 15 MOA dots on C-Mores and Aimpoint scopes. I have a 6 MOA dot module in my C-More now. Here's why... The 10 MOA dot felt very imprecise, to me - even accounting for using the top edge as the sight on long/tight shots. It just felt fat and unwieldy. The 15 was much worse - felt like I was trying to aim using a flashlight... The 8 MOA dot is better - 2 MOA doesn't sound like much, but it's pretty significant. At ranges out to 50 on wide open targets, it seemed ok, but on 25-50 yard tight shots, it starts to seem a little fat, as well, and I noticed some hesitation when attacking tight shots at longer range. The 4 MOA dot was too dim - it seems like an enormous jump from 8 MOA. It points with near laser like precision, but you have to turn the intensity up to "flare and beyond" in order to see it - and this expands the image of the dot, making it fuzzy, and imprecise - and larger than 4 MOA. The 6 MOA dot is the happy medium for me. Even it seems like a big jump down from the 8, just like 10 to 8 seemed big. But... it stays bright in sun (esp. w/ a dot shade), it still feels laser-like on tight, long shots, and it's big enough on close targets that it's easy to find quickly and points well. That said - I do tend to work a lot of refining my draws and index with an Open gun - I strive to present the gun the same all the time, so I don't tend to have to hunt for the dot or anything, even shoot weak handed, etc. The 6 MOA dot makes me feel most confident on all types of targets. With a C-More, you'll have to re-zero when you swap modules. And, besides, I believe that constitutes a violation of the rules to change gun configuration like that mid-match?? There were actually scopes (Gilmore, for one, and maybe Adco?) that were built to where you could switch dot size on the fly and not have to rezero. Gilmore also had/has the nifty NRA tombstone reticle, and mover adjustment built in, on one of the scopes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Thanks. More great information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 What XRE said. There are other threads you could search by "dot size" and get more info. BigD your avatar just kills me. Make it stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 What I am asking is can you change it at a match between up close hosefest stages and the 75 yard standard type stages and still stay zeroed? I wouldn't trust mine to stay zeroed ... at 75 yards ... but it seems to work at shorter ranges ... under 25yd I don't have a lot/if any zero loss when changing the dot size ... If your Point of impact is CENTERED behind the dot ... it shouldn't matter much even at 75 yards ... just center it on the target and pull the trigger. If only the A zone is exposed and you have no shoots on both sides at 25 yards ...a 16moa dot still wont touch either no shoot ... Its all relative! I can shoot one little ragged hole at 25 yards in practice and the 8moa dot and the 16 MOA dot both cover all my hits ...I don't think anything is lost by using the 16 MOA dot ... its just bigger, easier to find and see ... it hasn't made me any less accurate! But it has made me faster shot to shot! Its only $49 bucks ... and you can always shoot the 8 MOA if you don't like the larger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 BigD your avatar just kills me. Make it stop! I wish we could see what happened to the blonde. I bet she did the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 So how can you tell what size dot you have???? I have 2 c-mores and one is bigger than the other. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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