TACCOM 2-Stage Buffer Setups?

[gerritm]

My Gibbz ambi lower does not have that hold open feature. Don't need it. Does take a little more manipulating at the start. Don't like loading from a closed bolt. I find the short soft stroke to be way more of an advantage than the bolt hold open.

 

gerritm

[1981Shooter]

I put together a PCC, PSA upper and a Torkmag G-block conversion, about 2 months ago and haven't been too impressed with it.  I tried a few different weight buffers, AR10 carbine spring, Tubb's flatwire AR10 spring, and handloads from 156PF down to 134PF, but was never really happy with it.  The recoil impulse was substantially more than my .223 rifles and felt harsher than my .308 AR10.  I was considering selling it, but after reading everyone's reviews of the TACCOM buffer system, I'm going to give it a shot first.  Just ordered one, so we'll see how long the backorder is...

[L9X25]

7 minutes ago, 1981Shooter said:

I put together a PCC, PSA upper and a Torkmag G-block conversion, about 2 months ago and haven't been too impressed with it.  I tried a few different weight buffers, AR10 carbine spring, Tubb's flatwire AR10 spring, and handloads from 156PF down to 134PF, but was never really happy with it.  The recoil impulse was substantially more than my .223 rifles and felt harsher than my .308 AR10.  I was considering selling it, but after reading everyone's reviews of the TACCOM buffer system, I'm going to give it a shot first.  Just ordered one, so we'll see how long the backorder is...

Once you get his buffer, the trick is to tune the rifle to the ammo you are shooting.  If you plan to shoot factory ammo, you will likely end up with one of the AR10 recoil springs ( rifle or carbine).  If you shoot light reloads (say 130pf) you will likely prefer the AR10 carbine spring, or an AR15 recoil spring.  

[1981Shooter]

1 minute ago, L9X25 said:

Once you get his buffer, the trick is to tune the rifle to the ammo you are shooting.  If you plan to shoot factory ammo, you will likely end up with one of the AR10 recoil springs ( rifle or carbine).  If you shoot light reloads (say 130pf) you will likely prefer the AR10 carbine spring, or an AR15 recoil spring.  

Well I've got a good selection of springs to play with now 

[L9X25]

When I got my JP rifle, I purchased the spring assortment ... I think I have 10 springs for the SCS, along with several extra weights.

I only have 3 of the normal springs (so far) and think that I have it right now.  

[TRUBL]

18 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

Once you get his buffer, the trick is to tune the rifle to the ammo you are shooting.  If you plan to shoot factory ammo, you will likely end up with one of the AR10 recoil springs ( rifle or carbine).  If you shoot light reloads (say 130pf) you will likely prefer the AR10 carbine spring, or an AR15 recoil spring.  

bull.....308 springs are the worst thing you can put in the PCC....period, end of story.....no  debate....all they do is make the rifle sluggish and slam the bolt into the barrel....do not use them with our buffer, not needed nor recommended for any 9mm load. 

And....our recoils system regulates all by itself how much the the cushions will work for the load you have......no adjustment needed......at most, you'll be switching between a 10% reduced AR15 rifle spring and a carbine spring.

[L9X25]

Note that I said "Factory Ammo" ... I agree with you pertaining to reloads.   Some of the factory ammo can make the rifle a little harsh with an AR15 spring.

[TRUBL]

All I use is factory ammo

 

[Shorty4087]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:36 AM, Shorty4087 said:

 

Between Tim's confidence and the level of testimony to this system I have ordered my own 2-stage buffer with the cushion configutation. I hope to be ringing in the New Year with it installed and will provide feedback to this thread.

 

Tim - on an unrelated note, will your mag funnels fit a CMMG MK 9?

It was finally warm enough yesterday (+4) to give the new TACCOM 2-stage with cushion a test-drive, and I immediately noticed a 'cushioning' going back into battery...NICE! I ran 115's, 124's and even some 147's without a problem so I'm a believer!

 

I also wanted to thank Tim at TACCOM for walking me through a newbie problem with the setup related to the bolt release not engaging. He quickly walked me through that and even took the time to discuss another problem I had with my PCC. A great guy with tremendous customer support, thank you sir!

[BartCarter]

9 hours ago, TRUBL said:

First thing......there is no spring bind, the recoil spring does not go solid, period...

 

...And yes....as designed, the BHO may or may not work properly.....BUT you can get it to work properly very easy. You see, one the reasons we did this was to get the the absolute least amount of stroke travel possible and well....the BHO was the least of our concerns. BUT, yeah, some people just have to have that, even for competition. The bolt does however....have to come back far enough to reset the trigger (and it does)

 

So, what to do??? ... Remove the black delrin pad.......you end up with a little more stroke and little more noise (mmmmmmmaybe) and still have a smooth, safe recoil system. BUT wait Tim!!! NOW....you have a steel piece hitting the aluminum!!! IT's gonna wear out and punch a hole in the bottom of my buffer tube!!! well......uhmmmmmm......mmmmmmmaybe if that steel was a sharp spike and solid!! But no, it has a flat end and is spring loaded.....it will hit, but retract and not cause any harm what so ever. Ohhhh, I guess you could put a huge chamfer on the back of the delrin pad so that is fits better in the bottom of that buffer tube (you know, the bottom that isn't flat?) or you could trim a little off the front end of that delrin as well.

 

Bottom line......I can only think of a few reasons to actually have BHO for competition......

1) to pop up during a COF while you still have a magazine with rounds in it during a COF .....end result.....you just screwed your stage

2) you don't plan well and need the BHO to remind you to change magazines

3) you aren't good with mechanical things and need that BHO when you put your chamber flag in as your '3rd hand'

 

Agreed, the spring bind is not a problem -- I stated that I tested that and found there wasn't any spring bind.  The problem is that the buffer is now too long to function as before.  I took out the cushion and replaced it with the original hex screw and it functions fine without the additional length of the cushion.

 

I would like to continue this discussion in order to get a better resolution.  1st, from your website:

• For carbine buffer tubes only
• For use in blow back actions only
• Comes with TACCOM Rifle spring
• 6.2 ounces
• 2 stage action
• Allows for the BHO to functioin
• Also available with the “3rd” cushion stage

So, with no other information to the contrary that I have found (I read everything I could find) the BHO was initially designed to work.  Your "Bottom line" statement has no bearing on anything about your buffer.  I don't even know why you wrote it.  I am sure I am not the only person that would like LRBHO or to be able to easily lock the slide back and not have to release it by slamming the heal of their hand against the bolt release. 

 

As I said, your addition of the cushion lengthened the buffer and I feel this is the cause of the problem.  I suggested trimming the piston the amount the cushion lengthened the buffer could be a solution.  You suggest taking out the delrin pad to allow for more space for the longer buffer setup.  I can see this could be a solution, but I would rather keep the delrin pad.

 

I am going to trim the end of the piston (the end that hits the delrin pad) the thickness that was added by the cushion.  All I want to know is if you feel there would be any detriment to doing this as far as mechanics or safety.

 

Thanks

 

PS, if this works as I feel it should, I think that you should offer a shorter piston to your customers with the cushion.  Not everyone has a mill, like I do.  This would only enhance your well earned (from what I have read) reputation.

 

[BigBamBoo]

I just received the “cushion/third stage” piece today and will be trying the Taccom 3 stage against the Blitzkrieg hydro buffer I current run in all my PCC rigs.

 

 My means of testing will be groups of double taps and measuring the over all group. 

 

And perceived dot movement.

 

I will post up my results.  

[TRUBL]

55 minutes ago, BartCarter said:

Agreed, the spring bind is not a problem -- I stated that I tested that and found there wasn't any spring bind.  The problem is that the buffer is now too long to function as before.  I took out the cushion and replaced it with the original hex screw and it functions fine without the additional length of the cushion.

 

I would like to continue this discussion in order to get a better resolution.  1st, from your website:

• For carbine buffer tubes only
• For use in blow back actions only
• Comes with TACCOM Rifle spring
• 6.2 ounces
• 2 stage action
• Allows for the BHO to functioin
• Also available with the “3rd” cushion stage

So, with no other information to the contrary that I have found (I read everything I could find) the BHO was initially designed to work.  Your "Bottom line" statement has no bearing on anything about your buffer.  I don't even know why you wrote it.  I am sure I am not the only person that would like LRBHO or to be able to easily lock the slide back and not have to release it by slamming the heal of their hand against the bolt release. 

 

As I said, your addition of the cushion lengthened the buffer and I feel this is the cause of the problem.  I suggested trimming the piston the amount the cushion lengthened the buffer could be a solution.  You suggest taking out the delrin pad to allow for more space for the longer buffer setup.  I can see this could be a solution, but I would rather keep the delrin pad.

 

I am going to trim the end of the piston (the end that hits the delrin pad) the thickness that was added by the cushion.  All I want to know is if you feel there would be any detriment to doing this as far as mechanics or safety.

 

Thanks

 

PS, if this works as I feel it should, I think that you should offer a shorter piston to your customers with the cushion.  Not everyone has a mill, like I do.  This would only enhance your well earned (from what I have read) reputation.

 

yeah....it's not a shopping aisle we are going to go down, we have other plans

 

I'll tell you this....you cut the end you are talking about and you will screw things up.....if you HAVE TO HAVE BHO.....remove the delrin pad......pretty flippen easy

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by TRUBL

[BartCarter]

26 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

yeah....it's not a shopping aisle we are going to go down, we have other plans

 

I'll tell you this....you cut the end you are talking about and you will screw things up.....if you HAVE TO HAVE BHO.....remove the delrin pad......pretty flippen easy

 

Well, "you will screw things up" is not enough information for me not to do it.  I will report back when finished and tested.

 

You should take the "Allows for the BHO to function" off your description.

[jkrispies]

1 hour ago, TRUBL said:

yeah....it's not a shopping aisle we are going to go down, we have other plans

 

I'll tell you this....you cut the end you are talking about and you will screw things up.....if you HAVE TO HAVE BHO.....remove the delrin pad......pretty flippen easy

 

It sounds to me like the best solution is to not sell it with the delrin pad, LOL.  I’ve never used it and clearly don’t know what I was(n’t) missing.  My bolt has always locked open fine, with and without the cushion, albeit with a smidge more effort now that I’m using the cushion.   

[TRUBL]

4 hours ago, BartCarter said:

Well, "you will screw things up" is not enough information for me not to do it.  I will report back when finished and tested.

 

You should take the "Allows for the BHO to function" off your description.

you own it bart......let me know when you need to buy a new spring. I'll take your advise under consideration

The best solution is actually what we have......less travel....but the great thing about PCC is any dog can lift his leg and mark his spot to try and improve something 

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by TRUBL

[Neomet]

Hey Tim, since all springs have a lifespan what are you expecting for the smaller spring in your buffer?  

 

[TRUBL]

3 minutes ago, Neomet said:

Hey Tim, since all springs have a lifespan what are you expecting for the smaller spring in your buffer?  

 

Well.......according to the book......over 100K cycles for what we are compressing it to. It's gonna be an install and forget basically.

 

Was in the shop today......making barrels (go figure) and ADHD took over.

I looked at mil spec buffer tubes and commercial buffer tubes. Both tubes.....in the bottom are not flat. Ironically, the entire buffer system in a commercial tube actually went to BHO while the MilSpec was just short. Again....the MilSpec tubes are an IMPACT Forging and are not typically machined inside....while the commercial ones.....well, they can either be a one piece that is drilled and bored or a two piece that's welded up.........AND....BTW, the end of those tubes are THICK.....like almost 1" so you will not be punching thru it anytime soon.....should you loose the delrin pad.

 

While I am no fan of the BHO and any good competitor shouldn't be a fan of it either........I've come up with an idea on the delrin pad. 

Instead of cutting it off flat, we are going to cut it back at a 120 degree included angle to actually seat in the bottom, rather than sit on our  45 degree chamfer, which BTW is how all our current recoils systems work.. That will make things work on the problem child's, till you break your BHO latch. Easy mod that you can do to your pad at home with dremel tool or a file. But once we start shipping again, the new pad will be done.

[Neomet]

100k?  Yeah, that will do! Thxs.

[HoMiE]

3 hours ago, TRUBL said:

That will make things work on the problem child's, till you break your BHO latch.

 

???

 

so true, I removed the BHO from my lower, not necessary 

[XD Niner]

I received my 3-stage buffer assembly this week.  I shot it for just under 200 rounds in testing and practice yesterday and used it for a 175 round USPSA match today. 

 

Yesterday, I conducted a comparison between my identical Palmetto State Armory 16-inch, 9mm Glock mag PCC's.  My base configuration has the OEM bird cage flash hider and OEM buffer and spring.  My second PCC is identical to the first except for optic (EoTech on the base PCC and Holosun HS5510C on the test one) and a Taccom ULW 2-port muzzle brake and 3-stage Adjustable Recoil System.   Both have Hiperfire 24-C triggers.  All ammo was identical.  I'm using 4.3 grains of Winchester CFE Pistol, 124 grain Montana Gold CMJ bullets and a 1.10 OAL.  This gives me a 134-135 PF though the 16-inch barrels.

 

When shooting the bird cage vs. the 2-port muzzle brake and OEM buffers in both guns, I really couldn't detect any difference in dot movement.  I even have the ports on the muzzle brake positioned at 1:00 which is the direction my muzzle and dot move because I am a right handed shooter.  I then ran a series of 15-yard Bill Drills and there was no discernible difference in accuracy or average times.  I ran four Bill Drills (24 rounds total) with each configuration and had 5 Charlies with the OEM bird cage and 6 with the Taccom 2-port brake.  Given the small number of trials, I consider these equal results. Just for grins and giggles,  I also tried ten rounds of Blazer Aluminum 115-grain FMJ's to see if a hotter round (159 PF) maybe made more gas to help reduce the dot movement.  The dot movement was definitely more pronounced with the hotter load.  I didn't bother to run any Bill Drills with the factory ammo. 

 

My conclusion is that the muzzle brake provides little, if any, benefit with my soft loads.   As many have observed, there just doesn't seem to be enough gas generated in a short enough time interval to make much of a difference in a 16-inch PCC. 

 

I then installed the 3-stage buffer system in the PCC with the muzzle brake.  I compared dot movement between the two PCC's and noticed a slight but measurable improvement with the Taccom unit.  My Mark 1 eyeball estimate was a 15-20% reduction in dot movement.  Then I ran the same 15-yard Bill Drills.  In four runs, all hits were Alphas and the average time was 5% faster!  The average hit factor improvement was about 15%.  Based on my admittedly limited testing, my conclusion is that the 3-stage buffer does provide a significant improvement.  

 

This was borne out during the match today.  I found it easier to get the dot back into the A zone on my second shots.  As importantly, the gun still ran 100% with the new 3-stage buffer. 

 

I think the jury is still out on the value of a muzzle brake on a 16-inch barrelled 9mm PCC but for me the 3-stage buffer system is a winner. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by XD Niner

[TRUBL]

I'd say that is significant.......and pretty much what we are seeing on FB too on the recoil system. Nice Review!!

 

[TRUBL]

NOW........anyone compare this set up to an MPX yet?

[Garmil]

2 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

NOW........anyone compare this set up to an MPX yet?

Have you played with the scorpion recoil system at all?

[TRUBL]

3 hours ago, Garmil said:

Have you played with the scorpion recoil system at all?

[Tantal]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:01 PM, TRUBL said:

...if you HAVE TO HAVE BHO.....remove the delrin pad......pretty flippen easy

 

 

Just a word of caution for the guys running the smokes composite stock. If you remove the Delrin pad it will lock the buffer into the back of the buffer tube. 

 

The buffer spring rests against a tube inside the stock, looks like the ID of it is close to the OD of the buffer. It is not a flat bottom. 

 

Found out the hard way yesterday. Put the pad back in last night and had zero issues today.