Powder for loading .45ACP in Revolver IDPA?

[idleclamp]

Another "not what you asked for"  My load for a 5" 625 USPSA Major
 
5.7 gr Red Dot
185 gr Berry's HBRN plated.
 
Clean, accurate, soft.

What’s the velocity?


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[BlueBulletBeaker]

VV N310 is top shelf. I use Clays and have for years because I have over 40# of it. But the Clays recipe is not what it once was since the original factory burned down. It's now made in Canada and the newer stuff does not seem as consistent. When my Clays stash runs out, I'll probably switch to VV.

[open17]

1 hour ago, idleclamp said:

 

What’s the velocity?


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It chrono'd around 172 PF, so 185 gr bullet at 930 fps.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I'm in the same boat with a brand new 625 PC.  I plan to use 200 gr. RN or 230 gr. RN Bayou Bullets.  I have an ample supply of Clays on hand.  Any suggested powder weights for IDPA?  Thanks much. ELN

[idleclamp]

I'm in the same boat with a brand new 625 PC.  I plan to use 200 gr. RN or 230 gr. RN Bayou Bullets.  I have an ample supply of Clays on hand.  Any suggested powder weights for IDPA?  Thanks much. ELN

I don’t have it in front of me, but IIRC I used 3.8 of Clays under a 230 plated bullet. I’m pretty sure I was making Revo PF. Have to look at my notes.

I’ve given up on HP-38. Stuff is too damn dirty. I’m loading wit TG and N310 because that’s what I have. Just received 1lb of WST. Gonna try that at some point as well.


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[Jim Watson]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, BlueBulletBeaker said:

VV N310 is top shelf. I use Clays and have for years because I have over 40# of it. But the Clays recipe is not what it once was since the original factory burned down. It's now made in Canada and the newer stuff does not seem as consistent. When my Clays stash runs out, I'll probably switch to VV.

 

Naw, they fixed the fire damage a while back.

The real reason Hodgdon went to IMR for something to call Clays was that ADI had announced they were going to replace the powders sold here as the Clays series.  Similar but not identical. 

 

Note also that they are now getting something they call 700X from Alliant.  Rumor has it that this move is due to reports of poor quality from shotgunners.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Jim Watson

[21 shooter]

I’ve been using VV N310 with Bayou and SNS 230 RN bullets.  Soft recoil and it burns really clean.  Using a 625 JM

[Sparten8654]

On 12/5/2017 at 9:30 AM, Jim Watson said:

I am loading .45 Rev E and .45 Minor with Bullseye. 

A lot of the other powders I tried gave erratic velocity in light loads and left unburnt granules to get under the extractor. 

 

If I were going to get tough with it, I would try N310.  Good enough for the USMC. 

Also good enough for the Army marksmanship team(AMU) they have been using n310 for years

[eggman]

A powder that I like very much for IDPA 45 acp loads that I didn't see mentioned is Vectan Ba-10 . I use it with 230 gr coated RN bullets and really like the feel of it .

[K-Texas]

I suppose that shooting IDPA is great fun. But as far as any meaningful training for a real life defense scenario? Not so much. I was working in Arkanstein before the 1992 election while Bill Wilson was such a non-entity as to question him being a Clintonite. A good .45 ACP JHP defense load ain't likely to be as low as 170 PF, nor a 9 x 19mm load at 130 PF. But if you're aim is a sport to increase your own sales . . .

 

But for the subject at hand, whatever powder will get you enough power factor that when subtracting standard deviation is still at least 165. For me, I've had good results with WST and 200 gr. SWCs, but never single digit SDs. That wouldn't stop me from looking at powders with a similar burn rate. Clays hasn't come from ADI for a while now, and the Canadian version doesn't seem to excite anyone. If you like flake powders, there are some very good ones that are as old as any in the case of Bullseye. For a spherical or flattened ball type, Ramshot Competition looks like one worth investigating.

[synchronicity]

Bullseye for 45acp

and

Titegroup for 45GAP

230 coated lead.

[motosapiens]

On 2/6/2020 at 11:35 AM, eggman said:

A powder that I like very much for IDPA 45 acp loads that I didn't see mentioned is Vectan Ba-10 . I use it with 230 gr coated RN bullets and really like the feel of it .

i used clays in the past, but switched to ba10 when clays went away, and i find it meters better than clays, is probably cleaner, and gets significantly better SD's at the chrono. The only thing I don't like is that like clays, it takes up very little room in the case, so if you get confuzzled and double-charge a case, it won't be visually obvious. It only takes one double-charge to get your attention.

[idleclamp]

9 hours ago, K-Texas said:

I suppose that shooting IDPA is great fun. But as far as any meaningful training for a real life defense scenario? Not so much. I was working in Arkanstein before the 1992 election while Bill Wilson was such a non-entity as to question him being a Clintonite. A good .45 ACP JHP defense load ain't likely to be as low as 170 PF, nor a 9 x 19mm load at 130 PF. But if you're aim is a sport to increase your own sales . . .

 

But for the subject at hand, whatever powder will get you enough power factor that when subtracting standard deviation is still at least 165. For me, I've had good results with WST and 200 gr. SWCs, but never single digit SDs. That wouldn't stop me from looking at powders with a similar burn rate. Clays hasn't come from ADI for a while now, and the Canadian version doesn't seem to excite anyone. If you like flake powders, there are some very good ones that are as old as any in the case of Bullseye. For a spherical or flattened ball type, Ramshot Competition looks like one worth investigating.

Thanks for crapping all over something you’ve never even tried.

[HesedTech]

 

14 hours ago, K-Texas said:

I suppose that shooting IDPA is great fun. But as far as any meaningful training for a real life defense scenario? Not so much.

 

K-Texas????

 

Have you shot IDPA or USPSA at any level of participation?

 

I guess according to you the ability to draw and shoot an accurate 1st shot with accurate follow up shots, the ability to reload quickly, move and on top of it keep your brain functioning won't help "real life" situations.

 

You need to listen to "The Firearms Nation" podcast and actually read some of the top trainers like "Taran Tactical," Todd Jarrett, and so many others.

 

You either missed it with this one or some how did not explain yourself very well.

[HesedTech]

14 hours ago, K-Texas said:

A good .45 ACP JHP defense load ain't likely to be as low as 170 PF, nor a 9 x 19mm load at 130 PF. But if you're aim is a sport to increase your own sales . . .

 

You really need to check your facts. Here's the PF of some of the most popular Factory Defense loads:

 

Gold Dot 115 Gr - 131

Mag Tech 115 Gr -135

Fed HST 124 Gr - 140

Fed HST 147 Gr - 143

Win Ranger T 147 Gr - 145

 

These are typical and actually close to the PF many shoot.

 

Now if you mean +P or more loads, that's a different animal.

Edited March 6, 2020 by HesedTech

[K-Texas]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

 

You really need to check your facts. Here's the PF of some of the most popular Factory Defense loads:

 

Gold Dot 115 Gr - 131

Mag Tech 115 Gr -135

Fed HST 124 Gr - 140

Fed HST 147 Gr - 143

Win Ranger T 147 Gr - 145

 

These are typical and actually close to the PF many shoot.

 

Now if you mean +P or more loads, that's a different animal.

 

Most popular Factory Defense loads? Maybe you need to check your facts. I was shooting and handloading the 9 x 19mm before there was a +P. Now tell me about those great .45 ACP Factory Defense loads at 165 PF?

[HesedTech]

5 hours ago, K-Texas said:

Most popular Factory Defense loads? Maybe you need to check your facts.

 

K-Texas, 

 

Not sure what's getting to you, but that list comes right from a simple google search. Check out Pew Pew Tactical for one, https://www.pewpewtactical.com.

 

The weight and velocities are all listed in the factory data sheets, I then simply apply the standard PF calculator. Dillon Precision has a great on line one.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/power-factor-calculator.html

 

Those are the facts.

 

Here's a 45ACP one from Lucky Gunner:

Federal 165 gr Hydro shock Power factor = 151

Federal 230 gr HST +P  Power Factor = 194

Federal 230 gr Hydro Shock Power Factor = 182

Federal 165 gr Guard Dog Power Factor = 157

 

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

 

Pick the bullet weight and velocity you think is best and check the PF with the Dillon Calculator.

 

Just the facts sir.

 

Did a search and found some of your posts at Western Powder. 
https://blog.westernpowders.com/2019/09/my-friend-mo-maximum-9mm-ballistics/

 

I see you like the +P+ 9mm loads. Shooting 115 gr around 1200fps that gives a Power Factor of 138.

 

147 gr at 1200 is 176 PF

 

A USPSA open gun shoots them, 115, at around 170 PF, which is around 1480 - 1500 FPS.

 

Be safe and good shooting!

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by HesedTech

[motosapiens]

6 hours ago, K-Texas said:

 

Most popular Factory Defense loads? Maybe you need to check your facts. I was shooting and handloading the 9 x 19mm before there was a +P. Now tell me about those great .45 ACP Factory Defense loads at 165 PF?

that's awesome that you are super old, but who the hell cares about training for self-defense? we're talking about sports here. IDPA and USPSA are about  the skills of shooting and moving. Self-defense training is an entirely different subject, but the shooting skills one develops in order to be competitive won't hurt you in that realm.

[K-Texas]

What's getting to me is experience. Try this link: https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/details.aspx?id=675 and you'll see that they got 1200 FPS from their 4" test barrel. I chronographed that same load exactly 1 week ago at 1143 FPS from a 4" S&W M&P Compact. Try chronographing any of the 9mm loads you listed. Even with the SPEER 124 gr. +P Gold Dot Factory Rated at 1220 FPS, not even with barrels a 1/2" longer than their test barrel has velocity gone above 1180 FPS. 

 

 

Go ahead and ASSume that I've never competed. I have not and never will join the Bill Wilson Pistol association. I lost interest when he deemed the .40 S&W MINOR because Wilson Combat didn't yet make a 1911 chambered for it. No disrespect intended toward Mr. Hackathorn.

 

Editing because you have no idea considering the mention of 165 gr. Loads with a PF of 151. Are you female? 

Edited March 7, 2020 by K-Texas

[K-Texas]

20 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

that's awesome that you are super old, but who the hell cares about training for self-defense? we're talking about sports here. IDPA and USPSA are about  the skills of shooting and moving. Self-defense training is an entirely different subject, but the shooting skills one develops in order to be competitive won't hurt you in that realm.

 

Go back to your video games! If you wanted to shoot someone you could have done that in the service of your country instead of trying to be a closet commando!

[AHI]

[HesedTech]

K-Texas

 

It appears you have a passion for reloading different powders, bullets, calibers and platforms (pistol/rifle). It also appears you consider yourself an expert in these areas. There’s only one problem, this is a competitive shooting forum where people with a passion for their sport exchange things to solve problems and get better in their discipline.

 

You publish a lot of good info on various powders and loads, but could you please stop insulting the sport and passion of the participants of this blog. 
 

Someone wiser than myself decided when the sport was being established that power factor was the fairest, simplest and easiest way to measure a competitor’s ammo. All it takes is a chronograph and a scale to determine if a person is shooting a “legal” load and it leaves the choice of powders and bullets up to him or her.

 

As I pointed out, the power factors of commercially available factory defensive ammo resemble our “major” and “minor” requirements. However if you prefer something a bit stronger for your self defense needs then by all means have at it. 
 

God bless, be safe and good shooting!

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, K-Texas said:

 

Go back to your video games! If you wanted to shoot someone you could have done that in the service of your country instead of trying to be a closet commando!

 

I served 9 years in the army  grampa, and I don't want to shoot anyone. I just want to acquire better shooting skills and do better at shooting sports. I don't even have a neckbeard.

 

In my experience, the fundamentals of shooting skills or only tenuously related to power-factor.

Edited March 7, 2020 by motosapiens

[GrumpyOne]

11 hours ago, K-Texas said:

What's getting to me is experience. Try this link: https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/details.aspx?id=675 and you'll see that they got 1200 FPS from their 4" test barrel. I chronographed that same load exactly 1 week ago at 1143 FPS from a 4" S&W M&P Compact. Try chronographing any of the 9mm loads you listed. Even with the SPEER 124 gr. +P Gold Dot Factory Rated at 1220 FPS, not even with barrels a 1/2" longer than their test barrel has velocity gone above 1180 FPS. 

 

 

Go ahead and ASSume that I've never competed. I have not and never will join the Bill Wilson Pistol association. I lost interest when he deemed the .40 S&W MINOR because Wilson Combat didn't yet make a 1911 chambered for it. No disrespect intended toward Mr. Hackathorn.

 

Editing because you have no idea considering the mention of 165 gr. Loads with a PF of 151. Are you female? 

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Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.
No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.
Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.
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[K-Texas]

16 hours ago, HesedTech said:

K-Texas

 

It appears you have a passion for reloading different powders, bullets, calibers and platforms (pistol/rifle). It also appears you consider yourself an expert in these areas. There’s only one problem, this is a competitive shooting forum where people with a passion for their sport exchange things to solve problems and get better in their discipline.

 

You publish a lot of good info on various powders and loads, but could you please stop insulting the sport and passion of the participants of this blog. 
 

Someone wiser than myself decided when the sport was being established that power factor was the fairest, simplest and easiest way to measure a competitor’s ammo. All it takes is a chronograph and a scale to determine if a person is shooting a “legal” load and it leaves the choice of powders and bullets up to him or her.

 

As I pointed out, the power factors of commercially available factory defensive ammo resemble our “major” and “minor” requirements. However if you prefer something a bit stronger for your self defense needs then by all means have at it. 
 

God bless, be safe and good shooting!

 

For recreation or competition, USPSA is a good thing. I remember back to when this forum's namesake was first drawing attention and I looked forward to reading every article he wrote.

 

IPSC gave us the power factor values without any pretension of being something there weren't. Events like the Steel Challenge or Bianchi Cup are also things I'd still like to try.  I was around when IDPA got started, and the truth is that there was some contention with USPSA. IDPA offered a way to get defensive practice, but turned around and used the gaming load power factors of IPSC.

 

Any shooting time someone can get is a positive. Shooting is a perishable skill. With the costs associated with competitive shooting, I think many would do well to consider Training at the various academies around the country as often as possible. There are some good ones.

 

I know the point you're trying to make regarding ammo at near the same PF levels, but they're hardly the types of loads I would recommend for defensive carry. And I would encourage anyone selecting defensive ammo to verify the loads velocity by chronographing. They seldom match the advertised velocity where the exception seems to be the "boutique" ammo-makers like Double-tap, Underwoods and Buffalo Bore.

 

I do a good bit of ballistic research and I highly recommend getting a handle on things like Momentum and Sectional density. And as far as female shooters, I would not recommend a 151 PF 165 gr. JHP .45 ACP load when they would do better to choose a 9mm 147 gr. JHP. For 151 PF, such a load would need 1027 FPS while most are loaded to 1000 FPS or less, and unfortunately, Federal dropped their 147 gr. HST +P. But the thing here is that a 147 gr. .355" bullet has greater sectional density than a 230 gr. .451" bullet. Sectional density being a great contributor to penetration. My current defense loads are handloads, and because I live in Texas where when a shooting is deemed justifiable . . . end of story. I don't advocate that for anyone else and you must know the political environment you live in. But you still have the option of some very effective "factory" loads from the smaller companies I mentioned. I happened to obtain both the 124 gr. and 147 gr. HSTs as pulled bullets. My 124 gr. load chrono's 1250 FPS while the 147 is at 1125 FPS. 155 and 165 PF respectively from a 4.5" 30 oz. pistol with both being thoroughly tested, as well as the same weight Gold Dots.

 

Likewise to you.