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3 Gun rifle


Avalanche

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I don't know if you are going for an open or limited gun so here are my choices for each.

Open: Bushmaster 16" flattop( V Match), fluted barrel. Buy the complete lower separate from the top end so you can get a PREBAN upper. This makes attaching a muzzle brake of your choice easier because the barrel is already threaded. Once the brake is installed a blind pin is inserted thru the brake into the muzzle threads and welded over, this is postban legal. Cut off the bayo lug and cold blue. As for the brake,  JP works well.  Add a 1.5x5 Leupold vari-x III and a JP trigger and you are all set.

Limited: Bushmaster Dissipator 16" carbine, fluted barrel. This gives you a full length sight radius on a carbine length gun. Add an Ashley Outdoors same plane rear sight. This prevents zero changes when switching from one aperture to the other that is a problem with the A1 or A2 stock sights.  Go with a fixed carry handle (A2) or better yet an A1 upper (saves weight, KISS principle). I'd recommend the Wilson Combat muzzle brake installed as described above. A JP trigger would finish the project out nicely.

I'd pass on ASA from things I've heard. Bushmaster is not only the best deal on the market of the major AR makers but is also closest to mil-spec and has a chrome lined bore and chamber unlike the others, save some Armalites. Basically with AR's follow the ABC rule, Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt.

BTW, 14.5" barrels have a hard time making a 160 PF without heavy bullets, a 16" barrel will make it with a hot 55 grain load.

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I think personally that I would stay away from the 16" barrel unless you are shooting close up pistol type stages . I think the 20" guns balance better for the longer shots. I could be wrong on this but I don't know of a top shooter who uses a 16" gun.

A good value would be to get the Armalite 20" A4. It has a brake already that is legal for Limited and you can get the removable front and rear sights. Now you have a limited and an Open gun just by changing from optics to iron sights. You can also order it with their match trigger.

Bill H

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Quote: from Bill H on 6:10 am on Oct. 3, 2001

I think personally that I would stay away from the 16" barrel unless you are shooting close up pistol type stages . I think the 20" guns balance better for the longer shots. I could be wrong on this but I don't know of a top shooter who uses a 16" gun.

A good value would be to get the Armalite 20" A4. It has a brake already that is legal for Limited and you can get the removable front and rear sights. Now you have a limited and an Open gun just by changing from optics to iron sights. You can also order it with their match trigger.

Bill H


Nothing is wrong with a 16" barrel, but a 20" is great also. I've got both. If you do go with the 20" be sure to get it fluted, the HBAR  is a boat oar!

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Optics for open check out the bushnell 4200 1.5x6 plenty of magnification for long range and you can crank it down for the closer stuff. I have a RRA mount that EGW modified by putting an optima mount on the top of the rear ring. the best of both worlds. I like the 16" because it handles quicker than the 20".

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Avalanche---

Since you asked.......Olympic Arms is not one of the top AR manufacturers out there.......I've had to warranty way too many of their firearms.......you'll talk to a few guys that have had decent luck with one, but on the whole they aren't up to the quality of the big three.......Colt, Armalite, and Bushmaster.

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I agree w/ icer.  Stick to Colt, Armalite or Bushmaster.  I would add DPMS, JP and perhaps ASA to that list.  ASA has had some quality problems that I think they have been resolved.  They and JP are the only mfg. to build ARs for 3-gun from the ground up.  I shoot Colt lowers and have uppers built on colt, dpms, and bushmaster receivers - never had a problem with any of them.  I would note that ASA, JP, DPMS and Armalite actively support 3 gunning and Colt and Bushmaster don't.

I would get a 20 inch barrel or a custom 18in barrel.  I can't recall a top 3 gunner shooting a 16 inch barrel.  The full length gas system is more reliable as it does not overpressure the gas tube and bolt.  16 in guns are more prone to extraction problems due to too much gas. I prefer the balance of a 20 in and feel no handicap when shooting close range targets.

As far as scopes go - Leupold is king of the hill in term of quality and customer service.  They stand by their excellent product.  A Leupold 1.5-5X is IMHO the ultimate 3 gun scope.  Burris is good too.  Bushnell's low-powered variables are also popular plus they're cheap.

I don't care for mounting a dot on top of a normal scope.  The difference between line of sight and line of trajectory is too great.  You have all sorts of elevation problems.  I would mount the dot on the handguard at about 2 o'clock.  It is much closer to the bore.   Another option is the Grahams ring which holds the dot and is mounted on the scope tube.  It is very adjustable but I don't like the idea of mounting optics on other optics.  I've seen some custom mounts which attach to the top of the weaver rail on the receiver and hold the dot directly to the right of the scope.  Pretty cool.  My aimpoint is attached to a weaver rail which is attached to my handguard at 2o'clock.  

As far as dots go, I like aimpoints w/ a 5 MOA dot as a close range sight but not as a main sight.  Most top 3 gunners seem to be going to low powered variables as their only sight.  Mike Voight often shoots w/ a holosight alone.  He told me that he could shoot 300 targets as fast w/ the holosight as w/ a scope.  I believe that he can but I can't.  I would not rely on a dot as my only sight as I get much more feedback w/ just a little magnification.

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Thanks !!

Here is what I have to work with.

DPMS extreme superbull (I think too heavy for 3 gun), DPMS artic panther with a couple of bells/whistles (set trigger ext mag release fluted bbl), DPMS DCM, and post ban Colt. I sold my Bushmaster V match.

How about putting a choice of upper on one of the DPMS lowers?

I do have 2 holosights and am willing to buy a low power scope.

Input is appreciated. So many questions.

What about getting a DPMS upper with tri mount and put it on a lower I already have?

(Edited by Avalanche at 9:14 am on Oct. 4, 2001)

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If you are going to shoot the 3 Gun Nationals in Las Vegas, I don't think you can benefit much from a better-handling 16". They aren't whip-the-muzzle-around shoot-house field courses. It's more like, go to the wall, shoot supported, go to the low port, shoot prone, sit on the roof, shoot seated.

But if you're going to shoot your local club's pistol courses, then go for the shorty.

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I think I have it figured out !!!  For me ...for now.

Remember I am dark green and do not have a money tree in my backyard.

Listed are the specs for DPMS Arctic Panther

Caliber: 223 Cal., 5.56x45mm

Barrel: 20" Stainless Steel, Bull Barrel, 1 in 9 twist, (1” dia. approx.), Fluted, comes with black teflon on barrel as shown.

Length: 38.25"

Weight: 9 lbs.

Stock: Black Zytel composition A2 Buttstock with Trap Door Assembly

Sights: Scope Only (not included)

Capacity: 10 Rd Mags, 20 Rd Mags & 30 Rd Mags

Features: Flat Top Upper Receiver, Push Pin, Pivot Pin Action: Semi Auto

Operation: Gas

Method of Locking: Rotating Bolt

Rifling: 6 Grooves, 1-9 Twist

Handguard: Aluminum Free Float Tube

Special Features: White Coat Finish on receivers and Handguard, Black Teflon finish on barrel, provides dispersed camo pattern for winter varmint hunting.

Upper & lower receivers are hard coat anodized

per Mil-A 8625A & Teflon Coated Black  

Each Rifle comes with 2 - 10 round magazines, 1-Nylon Web Sling, and 1-Cleaning Kit

Options

CRYO Barrel Deep Freeze Accurizing

1-8 or 1-9 Twist

Harris Bipod

Chrome or Titanium Bolt Carrier Assembly

JP Adjustable Trigger

http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.c...4&CATID=493

When I ordered mine I chose the JP trigger, cryo barrel, titanium bolt carrier, extended mag release, and Harris bipod.

If I were to add a tri mount I could have a scope on top and a dot on the side...as has been discussed in forum.

This would work for OPEN.

To shoot limited, I take my DPMS DCM upper and put it on my Arctic Panther lower and away I go.  Only cost is a tri mount.

Sounds good to begin with for me...for now.

Boy have I had to think.

As always...your input is appreciated.

I still intend to purchase an Olympic Arms Ultramach sometime in my life...just to have one.

Does anybody else make a tri rise or tri mount that would work?

(Edited by Avalanche at 1:47 pm on Oct. 4, 2001)

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Flex,

I can take a picture and send it to you but I don't have all that high tech computer crap. I spend money on real toys.

Avalanche,

  Check out the Bushnell(used to be Bausch & Lomb) 4200. It has the rainguard coating( great for the downpours that always happen to me). It is about the same price as the Leupold and you get a little more magnification. For the dot I use the Optima because it is mounted LOW. I can switch just by tilting my head a little. I sight it in for 25 yds and am good out to 100. You'll have the POA, POI difference no matter what you use including just a scope. Learn your rifle and it is no big deal.

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Negative, the scope is in a mount made by Rock River Arms, The optima is mounted on top of the rear ring. Over under style. I don't have a picture of it. If you contact George Smith at EGW he might have a picture. (215)348-9892. I'll try to take a picture and send it out to Flex and maybe he can scan it in. It is actually a really cool setup.

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Kelly... you can help you extractor on your 16inch gun by adding a neoprene "O" ring...I dont remember the exact size but the inside diamete fits over the standard spring and polymer helper, and the outside diameter fits inside the radius of the rear of the extractor.  You will need to change it every 1000 rounds or so.  There is a retrofit kit via Crane (Naval Surface Warfare) that also contains a single gas ring that replaces the triple ring set up.  I'm working on acquiring mine at the present from my source... regards

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