M&P Carry Optics Suggestion: Core vs 2.0, Apex, etc

[timewaster1700]

I've been shooting USPSA for a few months now and am having a blast. I've been switching off between Production and Limited. I'd like to dabble in carry optics. I have a trijicon rmr I got on a deal that is itching to be put on a pistol. I'm leaning towards the S&W m&p. I like the feel of the grip, low bore axis, etc. Its a comfortable gun. I shot a local guy's at a steel match. He had a dot on his Core pro 9L (long slide version) and he had an apex FSS trigger kit in it. Wow one of the best striker triggers I've felt. 

 

I have since researched that the FSS would sadly not be carry optic legal for USPSA. So I'm trying to figure out how to proceed. Seems the Apex CAEK or DCAEK with the stock m&p trigger should drastically improve the trigger but I would love to hear people's opinions. One person said the DCAEK made it more of a DA rolling break type trigger whereas the CAEK had more of the two stage crisp feel and of course was lighter of the two. Anyone with the DCAEK care to comment on the trigger feel and how crisp?

 

How does the trigger reset feel after installing either the Apex DCAEK or CAEK? One thing I dislike about the stock m&p trigger is the lack of audible and tactile reset. I have however heard you can bend the trigger bar and get a better feeling/close to glock style reset.

 

The reset issue brings me to the m&p m2.0

I felt the trigger on an m2.0 and it was definitely much better than the stock m&p trigger on the last gen. But sadly they don't make a stinking core model in the m2.0

Would it be worth it to go the m2.0 route and get the slide milled for my RMR?

 

Finally, in the case of any of the above options, being that I'm new to m&p pistols, is it possible to reduce/eliminate over travel with any internal mods?

 

Also I was leaning towards long slide versions of whichever m&p for more weight and because I like big guns. But now I'm wondering if maybe the standard length barrel would be better since I don't gain any sight radius advantage with a dot and the higher weight mass of the long slide might cause more greater recoil due to the heavier mass? Thoughts?

 

Oh also, does anyone know if this pro model of the core would be carry optic legal if the ported barrel was replaced with a normal barrel? I felt the trigger on it and its smoother and has no over travel. Still has the reset feel issue though.  https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SM11997

Edited November 19, 2017 by timewaster1700

[touji]

If you're looking to get over travel in the trigger, I might suggest that you go with a Burwell trigger job if you don't need any modifications done immediately. I've heard great things about his work for both the Standard and Competition trigger mods he does.

[dogtired]

I bought this one, sold the threaded barrel on ebay for $150, and there was a $75 rebate.  $375.  

https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p9-9mm-pro-series-core-threaded.html#.WhOsmjNMGEc

 

It is the shorter barrel but it is “Carry Optics” so a small gun is the theoretical concept.  It is plenty accurate.  I added the Apex sear and extractor, Glock captured guide rod and 13# spring..  The trigger is a pound lighter, fairly crisp, short reset.  It is a light gun.  Remove the red dot, add the cover plate and shoot it in production.

 

If you replace the ported barrel on the one you listed you are gtg.

[Rez805]

On 11/18/2017 at 4:51 PM, timewaster1700 said:

I've been shooting USPSA for a few months now and am having a blast. I've been switching off between Production and Limited. I'd like to dabble in carry optics. I have a trijicon rmr I got on a deal that is itching to be put on a pistol. I'm leaning towards the S&W m&p. I like the feel of the grip, low bore axis, etc. Its a comfortable gun. I shot a local guy's at a steel match. He had a dot on his Core pro 9L (long slide version) and he had an apex FSS trigger kit in it. Wow one of the best striker triggers I've felt. 

 

I have since researched that the FSS would sadly not be carry optic legal for USPSA. So I'm trying to figure out how to proceed. Seems the Apex CAEK or DCAEK with the stock m&p trigger should drastically improve the trigger but I would love to hear people's opinions. One person said the DCAEK made it more of a DA rolling break type trigger whereas the CAEK had more of the two stage crisp feel and of course was lighter of the two. Anyone with the DCAEK care to comment on the trigger feel and how crisp?

I can't really speak to the "DA rolling break type". I had the DCAEK installed for a minute before I swapped the duty/carry spring out for the competition spring--keep in mind that my primary purpose for my M&P is competition, so there was little call for (what truly felt) like a slightly heavier trigger.

 

That being said, the real difference came with the sear and striker block. I do feel that the changes to the geometry of those parts resulted in a . . . "nicer feeling" trigger. EDIT: there was a suggestion for the Burwell Trigger Job. A big component of that trigger job is changing the geometry of the sear and the striker block. I wasn't comfortable working on those parts, so I opted for an Apex kit and ended up making small adjustments. If you feel comfortable with the instructions for the Burwell, feel free to try it out . . . perhaps on spare parts first.

 

Apex does publish some charts claiming to show the difference in how the trigger behaves after installing the kit, but it's up to you to decide to how to interpret it.

 

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How does the trigger reset feel after installing either the Apex DCAEK or CAEK? One thing I dislike about the stock m&p trigger is the lack of audible and tactile reset. I have however heard you can bend the trigger bar and get a better feeling/close to glock style reset.

 

Better, but I wouldn't say that it added a strong audible/tactile reset to my M&P (my particular model doesn't have the rear housing that accepts the RAM. I have no experience with it). I have not tried bending the bar (I've had both the S- and H-stamped triggers. Couldn't really feel a difference.)
 

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The reset issue brings me to the m&p m2.0

I felt the trigger on an m2.0 and it was definitely much better than the stock m&p trigger on the last gen. But sadly they don't make a stinking core model in the m2.0

Would it be worth it to go the m2.0 route and get the slide milled for my RMR?

Sorry, I can't assist with that. I live in CA so . . . no 2.0's any time soon.

 

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Finally, in the case of any of the above options, being that I'm new to m&p pistols, is it possible to reduce/eliminate over travel with any internal mods?

Yes, you can bend the trigger bar loop to tune engagement and reset, but PLEASE CHECK FOR SAFE FUNCTION. I ended up opening the loop and having a buddy drop a small weld on the portion that engages the striker block. A bit of filing and safety checking and I had a trigger that was crisp, engaged just past the trigger safety, and had very little overtravel. It was a world of difference. Here's a pic of the weld and loop. Again, fitting is required and safety testing is a must.

 

Sadly, the trigger broke where the loop bends. So, I ended up going with a stock trigger with a slightly opened loop only. The change in geometry does make the break feel quicker/earlier/more forward set. Of course, you also have to consider the USB engagement and check for safe operation. Plus, it acts as an internal overtravel stop in place of the added material (the weld).
 

Here's a crappy cell pic that shows the furthest back I can pull the trigger

 

Longevity? TBD, but this year I went to Area 1, NorCal Sectional, Production Nats, and 1-3 locals per month throughout 2017. Oh and quite a bit of Steel Challenge. I'm thinking around 8k+ at this point between matches and range nights.

 

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Also I was leaning towards long slide versions of whichever m&p for more weight and because I like big guns. But now I'm wondering if maybe the standard length barrel would be better since I don't gain any sight radius advantage with a dot and the higher weight mass of the long slide might cause more greater recoil due to the heavier mass? Thoughts?

I've only ever had the 4.25, so I can't offer any insight here.

 

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Oh also, does anyone know if this pro model of the core would be carry optic legal if the ported barrel was replaced with a normal barrel? I felt the trigger on it and its smoother and has no over travel. Still has the reset feel issue though.  https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SM11997

Yes, just make sure it's a PRO/CORE model and NOT the Performance Center Model (the Performance Center Model is not considered production legal). Reference the following:

https://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-production-gunlist.php
 

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All ported models of approved guns are approved for use in Production and Carry Optics, as long as the barrel is not ported.

 

 

 

 

Good luck and be safe

Edited November 24, 2017 by Rez805
Clarification on trigger job

[timewaster1700]

Thank you SO much for chiming in. Things were crazy with the holidays and work so I haven't had the chance to get on here and respond. I ended up buying the Pro Core 9L on a good deal this past week. It sounds like trigger job/custom work > APEX kit. I have a local gunsmith I know that likes to tinker. Maybe I can give him the info you gave me and have him tune it. I'm guess the results will be much better than if I attempted.

 

Thanks so much for the help and sharing that information.

[itlogo]

I just picked up a 9L Pro CORE with Burris FF3 that I'll be trying out this weekend in Carry Optics.  I had seriously considered the Canik TP9SFx because of the good reviews and cheap price, but I got a really good deal on the M&P, and already have mags and holsters for that pistol, so made sense for me.  I also like how the RDS sits low into the M&P slide due to the thin adapter plate.

 

The stock trigger is horrendous, so I'm going to get the Apex (C)AEK for it.