Best accuracy with cheap (range) brass ?

[IHAVEGAS]

I use mixed range brass rather than pay the extra for the new stuff.

 

This leads to obvious variations in inner and outer dimensions & overall condition (once fired target load vs ready for hospice thrice fired 9mm major). 

 

From fiddling a bit it seems like accuracy improves with reduced oal, not implying that is a fact in general but just an observation under one specific set of circumstances. 

 

This got me to wondering if there are general rules of thumb when it comes to reducing accuracy error caused by brass variation? Bullet length/ bullet weight/ powder / velocity / etc. 

 

 

[itlogo]

That'd be an interesting set of experiments--to see if different head stamps produce different accuracy.  But I'm too lazy to sort by head stamps.  Sounds like a lot of work.

[MemphisMechanic]

Interesting topic idea.

 

Ive always just tweaked my “average” OAL and charge weight until I find something that shoots the smallest group possible, while letting my crappy pickup brass variations do their thing.

[SCTaylor]

Huh, I make power factor. Only testing is to ensure the groups are 2" or less at 10 yards and make sure I can shoot good-for-me groups at 25 on a Classic.

 

I just make sure OACL is +/- 0.005" along with powder +/- 0.1 grains from my target load and crank out the rounds.

[Ken6PPC]

I think matched brass HAS to be more accurate than mixed brass.  I KNOW for a FACT (from personal experience) that carefully matched brass is more accurate in a precision bench rest rifle.  Therefore, it follows that matched brass SHOULD be more accurate than mixed range brass is.  Varying the case neck tension, thickness, and case volume WILL result in different internal ballistics such as pressures, better/worse cartridge centering in the chamber, etc.  This is so logical, it must be true.  

 

However, this is comparing apples to oranges.  Pistols are shot at much closer distances than rifles, and bench rest rifle shooting has a much higher accuracy requirement than action pistol shooting.  Add in the less precise aiming devices on pistols, and the less stable shooting platforms (human body on hind legs vs. a steady bench), and I doubt that it would make much difference "in the real world".  

 

I also think it would require a much better pistol shooter than I am to actually prove there is a difference.  

 

Now, what do I do?  I sort my cases, at least to have common head stamps. 

 

Why do I bother to sort by head stamp?  I prefer to weed out the undesirable cases, PLUS, I need all the help that I can get!    

 

[Steve RA]

I use one brand of brass for every caliber I shoot.

[Joe4d]

While logically uniform brass would produce more accuracy. In practice very few handguns are accurate enough for that improvement to matter.
Most people seem pretty happy with a 10 MOA gun. (2.5 ) groups at 25 yards. Lets say all your brass work results in a 10% improvement.  Your at what 2.25" group ?  Just not enought o matter at handgun ranges

 

[IHAVEGAS]

14 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

While logically uniform brass would produce more accuracy. In practice very few handguns are accurate enough for that improvement to matter.
Most people seem pretty happy with a 10 MOA gun. (2.5 ) groups at 25 yards. Lets say all your brass work results in a 10% improvement.  Your at what 2.25" group ?  Just not enought o matter at handgun ranges

 

 

I dunno, you go to that match where somebody puts up a 50 yard target and you would like to be one of the people that see it as a neat opportunity rather than an awe shucks, or even at that short range hoser match you just feel more confident if you know that the bullets are headed pretty much exactly where you point them.

 

Mr.Enos sez (page 189 if you want to read along in your hymnals) he could get 1.5" at 50 yards and about 3" at 50 is as much as most people should tolerate. I wouldn't argue that his goals are essential or even achievable for the average B class hacker like myself, but I do think that match results are biased in favor of those who get the best accuracy they can (or in the case of brass, the best they are willing to pay for). 

[Hi-Power Jack]

I use ONLY range brass - got 3" groups at 50 yards with my TruBor -that's better

than I can shoot     

[IHAVEGAS]

22 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I use ONLY range brass - got 3" groups at 50 yards with my TruBor -that's better

than I can shoot     

 

Good to know! 

 

Ransom rest and all that jazz or ninja warrior skill & sandbags? Reason I ask is I'm wondering if you were at the limits of mechanical accuracy. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

It was actually 53 yards (three yards behind the 50 yard market) - from sandbags.

 

And 71 year old eyes and everything else    

 

Using MG 124 gr JHP's and WAC at 1.16".

[Ken6PPC]

15 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

It was actually 53 yards (three yards behind the 50 yard market) - from sandbags.

 

And 71 year old eyes and everything else    

 

Using MG 124 gr JHP's and WAC at 1.16".

 

Wow!  

[pjb45]

I have some friends that are pretty anal about their brass, i.e., separating by head stamp and number of reloads plus chamber checking every round.

 

For local matches; I have a 1050 and load 125 rounds 10 minutes before I leave for the match.

For major matches; almost the same story but chamber check.

Are there variations in velocity-oh my YES.  But the average for six rounds chrono with multiple strings always turn out to be major; 168-170 pf.

I just don't worry about it anymore. That said, I am running Schuemann, Kart and Nowlin barrels and have tons of load data for each.  The Schuemann is definitely slower than the Kart or Nowlin.  Kodiak Precision built the SV guns so that variable is taken out of the equation.  They are all gnats ass accurate.

[Broncman]

One thing I really enjoy about USPSA is not having to be anal about my brass. I spent so much time in the loading room when shooting F Class 1000yards.

 

I sort bags of range brass to get rid of any errant 380 or crimped brass.

 

At $23 a 1k for cleaned brass I do not even pick up at the range anymore. Most ranges I shoot are gravel and the cases are bad shape by the end of a match.

 

 

[rustybayonet]

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Ken6PPC said:

I think matched brass HAS to be more accurate than mixed brass.  I KNOW for a FACT (from personal experience) that carefully matched brass is more accurate in a precision bench rest rifle.   

 

 

For some precision shooting, I match headstamp. For a step further you can match the weight of the cases.

[Ken6PPC]

6 hours ago, rustybayonet said:

 

For some precision shooting, I match headstamp. For a step further you can match the weight of the cases.

 

You know, I did that too, but I really didn't find any improvement by doing so.  Of course, we were all using Lapua 220 Russian brass, fire-formed into 6PPC cases, and they are so consistent to begin with...  

 

After all the time consuming case prep I put into my cases, weighing them and separating them into groups by weight didn't add that much time, so I always did it anyway. 

 

I also started all major matches with fresh(er) brass, normally after firing no more than 2 or 3 times after fire-forming.  Heck, I went so far as to try to keep the temperature of my loaded rounds as consistent as I could...  OCD?  Perhaps, but you need EVERY advantage you can get to shave off another thou or two from your aggs!  

 

I lost one two-gun aggregate by 0.0002"!  Yes, that is two ten-thousandths of an inch, over the course of four aggregates, two LV and two HV, at 100 and 200 yards with each gun, shot over the course of two days!  (It was the Michigan State Championship, shot at Holton.)  

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Ken6PPC
typo... and more info!

[Dr Mitch]

Brass variation doesn’t matter at all for pistols.  If it fits, it ships.