Steel DQ line- Handbook Vs. Range

[RadarTech]

Good idea or not isn't the question. lol
 Nor is good/bad stage design. 

2.1.1, 2.1.4 and 2.1.8 do not mention or specifically state that targets cannot be placed inside the shooting box or area.
But they do mention locating them in any way that might cause an unsafe action.

However 9.1.4 covers reshoots when pasters have fallen off.

So in this case a target while in the shooting area where a target can place a muzzle on the target is technically legal it can create significant problems with a stage. And this falls back on principles of stage design to prevent problems with the stage. These are covered in the CRO course.

In the end, as a stage designer you COULD do it.

But you can also put a target at 179.8 degrees and be legal. But why?

Troy's first rule is don't be a dick.

This comes down to what will make a good match, a good stage and a good shooting challenge.

Reshoots on a stage like this will be growing as the target is shot at more and more.

At a level 2 and higher, this would likely be caught well before the stage hits the ground and changed.

I don't see a point in doing it or a challenge....

[CHA-LEE]

As an MD, safety should be paramount. With that being said, why would you even setup a stage like this that clearly enables the engagement steel well within the safe minimum distance??? Everyone knows that shooters often lose their mind after the buzzer goes off and mistakes will happen. So why even make it possible for people to perform unsafe actions when they are going full retard???

 

This is clearly a bad stage design issue that could have been easily resolved by removing the illegal distance steel from the stage. This should be a stage design lesson for the stage designer and MD. Its likely that more time was wasted on discussing the steel distance issue and adding additional fault lines than it would have been to simply pull the illegal distance steel from the stage. Some people just like going out of their way to make their life more difficult. The KISS rule really does apply when running matches.

[Thatsme]

To be fair. This was the first uspsa match at this range for a new MD. We all knew going into it that there would be hiccups as this is a newer club.

I was just wondering as I had not seen this before this match

Thanks

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[CHA-LEE]

Every match is a learning experience for both Competitors and Match Staff. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes so it doesn't happen again in the future.

[MikeBurgess]

5 hours ago, Mcfoto said:

I'm subscribing to this thread with interest. As a relatively new shooter (2 years), I assumed the 23 yard rule was on the stage designer to set shooting boxes that prevent shooters from engaging poppers closer than that distance. When I help with set up, we've moved fault lines to accommodate this rule. In my limited experience, I've never encountered a second DQ line.

 

I feel pretty confident that this will not be something you will run into, locally at any rate :-)

[AlphaCharis]

4 hours ago, Thatsme said:

To be fair. This was the first uspsa match at this range for a new MD. We all knew going into it that there would be hiccups as this is a newer club.

I was just wondering as I had not seen this before this match
 

 

We shouldn't be seeing anything like this at USPSA matches.  I do think the new club will do well and I have nothing but <3 for the MD.  The good thing is, now they know the rule and can make sure it doesn't happen again.  ...Though, PB has yet to learn this lesson, as they have done the same thing twice.... no wait, three times this year.  Plan ahead if you are going to have steel, measure the distance from where you plan to have your steel BEFORE you start laying down fault lines.  That stage from a few months ago:  There was no reason that in a FIFTY YARD bay you couldn't have backed up your fault line 3 more feet or thrown in a wall with a port to make the stage legal.  (Any of us at the match could have not been lazy and just gone and grabbed a wall ourselves....)  I am appreciative of our MDs and all the work they put into the matches, and the setup crew.  I think it's healthy to bring rules discussion up for the benefit of future USPSA matches.

Edited November 7, 2017 by AlphaCharis

[CHA-LEE]

27 minutes ago, AlphaCharis said:

 

We shouldn't be seeing anything like this at USPSA matches.  I do think the new club will do well and I have nothing but <3 for the MD.  The good thing is, now they know the rule and can make sure it doesn't happen again.  ...Though, PB has yet to learn this lesson, as they have done the same thing twice.... no wait, three times this year.  Plan ahead if you are going to have steel, measure the distance from where you plan to have your steel BEFORE you start laying down fault lines.  That stage from a few months ago:  There was no reason that in a FIFTY YARD bay you couldn't have backed up your fault line 3 more feet or thrown in a wall with a port to make the stage legal.  (Any of us at the match could have not been lazy and just gone and grabbed a wall ourselves....)  I am appreciative of our MDs and all the work they put into the matches, and the setup crew.  I think it's healthy to bring rules discussion up for the benefit of future USPSA matches.

 

You bring up a good point that I think a lot of shooters miss. Its up to ALL OF US attending a match to keep safety at the top of the priority list. When I am attending a local match and see an illegal stage or safety issue I will not only tell the MD or RM but also propose a viable solution for fixing it. I also don't just point out the problem and solution then walk away hoping that someone else will fix the problem. I usually go back to the stage with the MD or RM and help fix the issue. Spending a few minutes moving things around, pounding nails or whatever else is a small price to pay to ensure that we all have a safe and fair time at the range. 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

You bring up a good point that I think a lot of shooters miss. Its up to ALL OF US attending a match to keep safety at the top of the priority list. When I am attending a local match and see an illegal stage or safety issue I will not only tell the MD or RM but also propose a viable solution for fixing it.

We have several folks here that do the same thing. We start building stages about 90 mins before we start shooting, so sometimes it's nice have an extra pair of eyes or 4 to find the shoot-through you missed, or the potential 180 trap.

[happygunner77]

http://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/uspsa/range-commands.pdf

[Thatsme]

http://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/uspsa/range-commands.pdf

[emoji106][emoji106]

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[limitedgun]

That is just plain and simply poor and lazy stage design. Most matches the stage would be crucified by the shooters. It happens only because it is allowed.

[Boxer1]

This sounds like a mess waiting to happen. We always try to set steel far enough from the closest part of the fault line.

[Derrick-508]

Build the Stage from the back to the front,  start with all steel, then paper, measure, then place walls and fault lines.  walk thru, get another RO to walk through, then stake everything down. at least that works for me. 

[MacLethal]

Our range has a rule for steel that is 30ft. We typically adhere to the rule to keep people happy but in some cases if we need to use the room in the bay and it ends up closer they aren’t going to shut us down. It’s really in place for the joe public as a liability thing.


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