Langenator Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I shot a match this weekend (run & gun type 2-gun) that featured the need to roll the rifle 90 degrees to make shots on 2 stages. (One was under a car, one target each right and left handed, and the other was through a very low horizontal port.) It gave me a really tough time. I've done it before, with an EoTech at relatively short (25-50m) ranges. This time it was with a 1-4x scope, at something like 75-125m or so, and it gave me fits. Can anyone descripe What shooting is such a position does to the relationship between POA and POI? And any tips for practicing such shooting if your local range discourages such unconventional things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 If the rifle is ejection port up, hold on the right side of the target. Steel plates at the distances you indicate hold toward the top of the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) The advice i always got was when you shoot with the gun on its side (eithe side) was hold torward the magazine and high. Thats due to the elevation you have dialed into the scope to cause the trajectory of the bullet to cross the line of sight now becoming windage when the rifle is on its side and holding high because you now don't effectively have any elevation on the scope. You should go practice it on a large paper target at different distances to understand to effect (say a uspsa target) Edited October 27, 2017 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Caspian guy pretty much nails it. A few other observations, sometimes overlooked. For ports, walls, and other nearby props don't forget height overbore just became a horizontal offset. Watched a majority of PCC shooters blast a close wall frame rolling the rifle over instead of leaning this past weekend. I've seen Vtac barricades take similar abuse when staying back. If you get the ejection port near enough a the ground or whatever you can induce malfunctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Beef15 said: ... For ports, walls, and other nearby props don't forget height overbore just became a horizontal offset. Watched a majority of PCC shooters blast a close wall frame rolling the rifle over instead of leaning this past weekend. I've seen Vtac barricades take similar abuse when staying back. ... Done that with a rifle. Just leaning to get around the wall. Stayed back, instead of using the frame for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Oh, I did it to the car, on the kneeling shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWil Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I know you got the answer, but here is a good visual. I remember based on holding on the mag side and high as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmbtEngr Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Best discussion on off-axis aiming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 On 11/1/2017 at 4:33 PM, JWil said: I know you got the answer, but here is a good visual. I remember based on holding on the mag side and high as well. Basically this. Although I've gone out and tested it at the range, and at 100 yards my rounds don't drop. I actually get a more consistent vertical spread than normal, but it makes my head feel funny so I try not to do it too often. For the top two targets in this image (90 Ejection port up/down) my rounds would impact at the top of the A box perforation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Good thread. I went out and tested this today. 6" plates at 200 yards were cake with the rifle upright. On its side, not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjbe Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) In the frank proctor carbine video he covers this with an easy way to remember - hold in the direction of the magwell. same advice as the ejection port but may be easier to remember Edited May 16, 2018 by emjbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alphas Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 To quote an accomplished AMU acquaintance I know as well a great instructor I had from many years ago: "Aim to the magazine side"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkamps Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Already nailed it but bias the side of the magwell (think of your zero distance here for range hold over/under, its just horizontal now instead of vertical, for visualization in shorter distances) Keep in mind that the farther out you go, the more you will hold to the side of the magwell... and now your bullet no longer has a MPBR/50/100/200/whatever yard zero, so you will have to manually compensate for drop depending on range. In short, high and to the side of the magwell, magnitude dependent on range. Play around with a vtac barricade at ~150-200 if you can, its fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase214 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 A easy way to remember is shoot towards the mag well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamj Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Jump into open and throw an offset red dot on that bad boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoeShooting Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 shoot toward the magwell also ive been running an offset optic in open division so now to me shooting it on the side is almost as natural as using the scope ontop in fact i think i can probably use it better on its side now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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