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Suitable 9mm PCC carbines


zzt

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I have retina problems that  prevent me from shooting shoulder mounted shotguns or rifles with any appreciable recoil.  At a Steel Challenge match earlier this year I watched a young lady shoot her 9mm Carbine.  The gun didn't move and neither did her shoulder when she fired.  Remembering that just now got me to thinking I could take up PCC if the recoil was actually that low.  As long as the recoil doesn't jerk my head backwards, I shouldn't have any retina issues.

 

So, for you who have a lot of experience with 9mm PCCs, which ones are the best, and which shoot the softest with factory ammo.

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2 hours ago, tyler2you said:

The Sig MPX is probably the softest shooting 9mm carbine due to the locked bolt vs. a blowback system.  AR-9s can be made to shoot fairly soft, but it will be more challenging with factory ammo.

agreed.. they are like shooting an air soft gun.. 

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I will second the LeadStar. They are by far one of the best available to the market right now. It also depends on what you would like to spend. You can get a good running PSA Ar-9 and be successful with it as well. It truly is all about what you are willing to spend.

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My custom built AR-9, while heavier than my rimfire shoots to the same speed in SC as my 10/22 as I am at M class in both. While my shoulder feels some recoil my head never moves at all. I generally run either over the counter Fed 9mm or reloads, usually 147g, at somewhere between 900-1000 fps.

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If it will be exclusively for Steel Challenge, you can load up some extremely light loads that combined with a bit heavier AR-9 will give you very little movement.

 

I can run a stock PSA AR-9 (but I did change out the recoil spring to a lighter .223 spring) at 92.5 PF reliably.   I use 98 gr coated bullets over around 3 gr N-320.  Very light recoil, the bolt is not sluggish, and plenty accurate at Steel Challenge distances.

 

As for any factory load I've tried, even with my heavier gun the recoil is more than you may like.

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When I get my 9mm Open gun built I will definitely be reloading.  If I have to before then, so be it.  I will definitely research the 'heavy' AR-9.   I'll also try lighter loads.  I have no problem with recoil to my shoulder.  It just can't jerk my head.

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Another vote for the Sig MPX.  It is extremely soft shooting.  It shoots factory 9mm just fine, but my Steel Challenge load is a  Montana Gold 95gr JHP, 4.8grs of N330 (because I have several pounds I got off a prize table somewhere) at 1,000fps.  Some people complain about the fat handguard and try to make it lighter, but I shot Smoke & Hope in 7 seconds and change at the Challenge this year using the stock barrel and handguard.  I've shot it at several USPSA matches and have had only one misfeed at the first match.  I shortened up the OAL to 1.15" and haven't had any more problems.

 

I swapped the factory adjustable buttstock for a another buttstock I had l laying around by using the Thorsen adapter, put a C-More red dot on it and replaced the horrible factory trigger with a Hiperfire 24C. 

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6 hours ago, zzt said:

 I have no problem with recoil to my shoulder.  It just can't jerk my head.

 

Thinking a bit out of the box, but would mounting your red dot sight a little higher help?  You won't need as tight a cheek weld on the buttstock and with your head more upright, less shock to your head.

 

The MBX offset mount for Cmore red dots might also do the same thing.

 

Even though you can handle the recoil, lighter loads will result in less muzzle rise and therefore reduce the distance the buttstock come up into your cheek.  And though I'm in the camp that feels 9mm PCC comps don't really help with muzzle movement (I use them to direct some blast back towards the timer), you might at least try one of the better comps.

 

Don't know if any of this will help but might be worth a try.

Edited by Flatland Shooter
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Even though I prefer optics as close to the bore as possible, I plan to use a riser on the carbine..  I used to shoot competitive ATA trap.  When this retina thing developed I experimented with ways to continue to shoot and not produce symptoms.  I discovered if I mounted the gun lower in my chest pocket, the comb would just touch my chin.

 

I think the same approach with the carbine will work.  I have seen many PCC shooters fire and the muzzle doesn't rise at all.  So it is possible.  

 

I talked at length with Derek at Lead Star Arms.  His PCC sounds impressive.  He maintains that using 124 subsonic for USPSA and 147 for SC, the recoil is no more than an MPX.  He also said the recoil is straight back.  MBX Extreme is coming out with a custom PCC 9mm shortly.  I emailed Adrian and he sent me all the details on it.

 

I'm in the process of building a custom 1911 Open for SC.  When that is done I'll build the 2011 Open.  I'll have to reload 9mm for them, so I might as well just start early.

 

Thanks for all the good suggestions.  Now I have to go out and try some of these.

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Here's my girlfriend's build shooting 100gr RN coated over 4grains of Bullseye. Her gun is running the stock ATI bolt with the weight removed, a carbine spring and 3oz buffer. It moves very little with double and triple taps.






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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 years later...

There are a lot of great gaming guns for PCC but with your need for the softest recoil the Sig MPX wins. My experience is the same as Nimitz, with a 95 grain load at 97 PF the gun runs perfect and will make you giggle at how soft it shoots.

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A friend has a Leadstar Arms PCC.  He is a GM and shot it for two years without any problems.  He uses MD Munitions reloaded 115 @1050 ammo through it. They are one of his sponsors.  I shot the gun with his ammo and liked it a lot. I've discussed it at length with Leadstar, one of their dealers and shooters.  I ordered one a little over two months ago.  Supposedly they have solved their anodizing problems by going to a new vendor.

 

I have conformation from several shooters the stock Prime configuration shoots 109FP ammo with no changes.  I ordered it with the 16" SS barrel, because I intended to swap it out for a Wiland USA LLW barrel.  That is a 5.5" barrel with a shroud to get it to 16.1".  I have one on my RFRO gun and love it.  It transitions like lightning.  The 5.5" barrel will also avoid adding the 150~200fps a 16" barrel would.  So recoil will be lower.

 

Supposedly I am to receive the gun at the end of the month.  I have a lot of different ammo to try through it.  I have 115 gr @ 950, 1000, 1050 and 1150, plus 124 @ 1000 and 147 @ 980.  I also have a couple of handloads I have not chrono'd yet.  My ultimate goal is to get a flat and soft shooting PCC, and then try to get my Open 1911 to run the same ammo.  Right now it won't run anything lower than 144PF.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

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for virtually no recoil is there a reason you don't shoot rimfire?    if you decide to downgrade to a 10/22, I have fun  shooting rim fire rifle open (RFRO) with a Brownells BRN22 integrated rail receiver with barrel in a PMACA  lightweight chassis, Ruger bolt, BX trigger group, Hogue grip, and AR stock... very little weight on the front end, handguard is a MagPul angled fore end on an extended under rail... Vortex Venom sight... and ammo is a whole lot cheaper :)

Edited by Les Snyder
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4 hours ago, Les Snyder said:

for virtually no recoil is there a reason you don't shoot rimfire? 

 

I already shoot RFRO, plus Open and RFPO.

Edited by zzt
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Another locked-breech option is the HK roller-locks like the MP5.  Local guy did pretty well at PCC Nationals with one a few years ago and they do recoil less than blowback guns.  More reliable than the early MPX's too.  IDK about the later MPX.

 

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