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Witness Elite Limited – my first time.


JROTTY

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My new Witness Elite Limited in .40 S&W will be here tomorrow and you know what that means – heading to the range on Saturday.  I’m new to the Tanfo world, but shot a Para P16/45 in USPSA Limited back in the day (late 90’s) and recently, a Glock 22 (this is my first season back in USPSA).  I plan to install the DP FO front sight so I can zero the gun on Saturday.  Then, I’ll have time to tune/polish (I have a friend that will “school” me on this) before my next match the following Saturday.  I’d like to polish first, then zero the gun, but too many schedule conflicts.

Anything else I need to do to the gun (maybe a little oil is the right spots) before going hot on Saturday?

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"Decent" means more motion than you like initially both pre-and post travel.  setting them too tight initially  could lead to issues of fail to reset or some other goofy failure. 

 

Clean it up and lube it. After the gun is polished, runs a few hundred rounds and settles in, THEN tighten up pre travel and over travel screws to your liking.

 

 

40 minutes ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

Not much out of the box. Just make sure your pre travel and post travel screws are set decent. 

 

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Thanks for the input and advice.  Here I was thinking that it would be better to polish before the first time out.  But, as it turns out, it is better to run a few hundred round through it first so that you can see the initial wear points - then polish.

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3 hours ago, JROTTY said:

Thanks for the input and advice.  Here I was thinking that it would be better to polish before the first time out.  But, as it turns out, it is better to run a few hundred round through it first so that you can see the initial wear points - then polish.

 

Correct.

 

Those of us with the DA Stock 2/3? Most of us did around 3 passes of in-depth polishing. With the weak hammer strike of double action, every bit of internal slickness helps!

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Regarding installation of the DP FO front sight, I've read here where there were some fitment issues (loose fit, wrong size set screw...).  But that seemed to be early-on when DP first released their FO sight.  I plan to install it this evening and will report back here if the issue still exists.

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37 minutes ago, 01Deuce said:

It's the right size set screw for a Dawson sight,but much smaller than the stock set screw. The smaller screw  can very easily go through the bottom of the hole. 

 

It depends on which drunken Italian was at the mill that day. Some slides are drilled all the way through, it seems. Mine barely had a dent there, perfect divot for a small set screw to bite into.

 

Go red loctite in the dovetail and on the threads, or go home. Don’t bother with blue loctite - heat and vibration loosen loctite’s bond. Think about the implications of that when placed directly atop a nice warm gun barrel.

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On 9/21/2017 at 10:12 AM, JROTTY said:

My new Witness Elite Limited in .40 S&W will be here tomorrow and you know what that means – heading to the range on Saturday.  I’m new to the Tanfo world, but shot a Para P16/45 in USPSA Limited back in the day (late 90’s) and recently, a Glock 22 (this is my first season back in USPSA).  I plan to install the DP FO front sight so I can zero the gun on Saturday.  Then, I’ll have time to tune/polish (I have a friend that will “school” me on this) before my next match the following Saturday.  I’d like to polish first, then zero the gun, but too many schedule conflicts.

Anything else I need to do to the gun (maybe a little oil is the right spots) before going hot on Saturday?

This will be my next purchase so I'll be watching closely for updates and mods ?

Edited by Gviz
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16 hours ago, JROTTY said:

Regarding installation of the DP FO front sight, I've read here where there were some fitment issues (loose fit, wrong size set screw...).  But that seemed to be early-on when DP first released their FO sight.  I plan to install it this evening and will report back here if the issue still exists.

 

If you get the Dawson sights don't forget to use loctite (blue) on the set screw. I didn't and it fell off ? And what a waste of another fiber optic rod??‍♂️

 

Correction:

If Memphis says red loctite use the red...

Edited by Gviz
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13 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It depends on which drunken Italian was at the mill that day. Some slides are drilled all the way through, it seems. Mine barely had a dent there, perfect divot for a small set screw to bite into.

 

Go red loctite in the dovetail and on the threads, or go home. Don’t bother with blue loctite - heat and vibration loosen loctite’s bond. Think about the implications of that when placed directly atop a nice warm gun barrel.

Looks like I'm going to waste one more fiber rod since I used blue not red ??‍♂️???‍♂️ Thanks for the info MM?

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The DP sight was an easy install.  But, as reported here, the set screw is very small and will not contact the slide since it is directly over the recess for the set-screw for the Tango sight.  So, I took some lead from and old bullet, formed it, put it over the recess hole, and tapped it down firmly until it filled the hole.  Then took a jeweler's file and cleaned it up so the DP sight would slide in unobstructed.  Also, as reported here, the DP sight had to be lighly filed on the bottom so the dove-tail would line up with the slide sight channel.  So, I simply laid the sight flat on a jeweler's file, and ran it up and down, then check the fit.  I did a little at a time so as not to over do it.  Since the DP sight came with the screw installed, I did not try to back it all the way out to get some blue loctite on it. In stead, I just backed the screw most of the way out, then dropped some loctite in the hole, slid the sight in the slide sight channel, then locked it down with the set screw.  The set screw bottomed-out so I know it made firm contact with the lead insert.  I'll have to keep a close eye on it and check it often at the range today.  I may go back and file the hole with some JB Weld.

 

Here is the interesting part, my friend that is the local Tango guru said his DP sight had the set screw in the middle of the sight, not at the end.  So, I am wondering if I got some old stock.  I'll confirm later today when we are "tuning the Tanfo."

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Put 300 rounds through it on Saturday.  After about 200 rounds, checked the sight is it was good to go.  Then, after shooting another 100 rounds, the front sight was loose. Went over to my friends shop (seriously nice, well equipped gun shop in his garage) and polished the trigger bar and trigger bar guide and replaced the sear spring (PD reduced power) and installed a 13lb hammer spring.  Also replaced the recoil spring from the 13lb that came in the gun with the 12lb that comes with the gun.  Trigger pull reduced to 3.5# (perfect for me).  As for the DP FO sight, snugged it back down and it seemed good, but when reassembling the slide, the barrel would not go in.  Come to find out, the very small DP set screw actually punched through the bottom of the sight screw recess, pushing some of the led filler through the tiny hole, and preventing the barrel for slipping into the slide.  So, I cleaned out the led that came through the hole, and tightened the set screw – it was snug.  Sunday, went to the local indoor range to check it out.  Fired about 100 Precision Delta remanufactured rounds (180 grn) - no issues.  Then loaded up a magazine of my match ammo (180 grn over 4,2 TG, OAL 1.135) and had 2 light strikes (using Winchester small primers – could not find Federal anyway). 

 

Next step, longer firing pin with the corresponding 13lb spring.  Also, the DP FO sight was loose again so I removed the sight, cleaned out all the led, mixed up some JB weld, and filled the sight screw recess hole completely.  Going to reinstall the DP FO sight later today - confident it will work.

 

BTW - verified that the newer DP FO sights have the set screw in the middle of the sight housing (not at the rear).  I believe I received some old stock.

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Did you polish the firing pin AND channel to a mirror finish?

Also the hammer strut, spring and the hole. All mirror bright.

 

The above will help with ignition, this next trigger smoothness.

 

Trigger bar plunger? The strut,  head (outside and inside) and the hole... all mirror bright?

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Didn't use a caliper, but the primers are flush with the bottom of the brass shell.  BTW - I've loaded over 1,000 rounds - and ran them through my tuned Glock 22 without a single light strike issue.  As for polishing, really relying on my buddy, but I don't think he polished the firing pin and channel (but yes on the trigger bar plunder and strut).  Going over to his house on Thursday to install the Xtreme extended FP and FPB.  Then to a match on Saturday and Sunday.

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27 minutes ago, JROTTY said:

Didn't use a caliper, but the primers are flush with the bottom of the brass shell.  BTW - I've loaded over 1,000 rounds - and ran them through my tuned Glock 22 without a single light strike issue.  

 

Sooooo what you’re telling us is that your gun is having issues with ammo that is loaded with high primers.

 

You’ve left the striker fired world behind. I’m sincere when I say that a flush Winchester primer is a high primer. Actually, it’s quite a bit high. Even in CCI you can load them a thousandth or two below flush, even on my “worst case scenario” Dillon 650.

 

This was a hard pill for me to swallow at first, too. But it’s very much the case.

 

If they’re flush, you’ll need a few extra pounds of hammer spring to get your gun to hit them hard enough to run 100% and that works great. But if you want to play with light springs and low pull weights, you have to seat your primers with an obsession toward burying them deep.

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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Use the softest primers and seat them as deep as possible. Or find a way to seat them deeep.

 

Federal match can be dead flush and still popped in a fully polished gun w 10# pd hammer spring. But it was too light at 3 1/2# da sub-1# sa.

 

Today i prefer 15.5 pd springs. The key is FULLY polishing so it is silky smooth. Then the weight is secondary.

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Really appreciate all the input and advise.  So, after installing the Xtreme extended FP and FPB on Thursday (and still running the 13# Wolff hammer spring) I went to the match on Saturday and still experienced some light strikes with my match loads (and flush WSP primers).  But get this, right out of the gate, I was getting FTFs.  Over 400 rounds through this Tanfo leading up to the match (breaking it in) and the only issue was the occasional light strikes with the 13# Wolff hammer spring.  The Xtreme extended FP and FPB was suppose to fix that.

But - at the match...it was... "Stand by....BEEP!" and I get FTF on the 1st stage, first round.  I know - should have at least gone to the local indoor range to test the extended FP and FPB before the match which may have uncovered the FTF issue.

 

Long story short, it appears that my 1.135ish COAL rounds were possibly binding in the magazine and/or just too long to feed properly (so I have read).  I did run about 100 of my match rounds through the gun during break-in but was only loading the mags to 12 to 15 rounds (I have the Henning base pads and Grams guts).  At the match, I topped them off.  So, now I was having FTF and light strikes.  I tried loading the mags short - just 14 rounds.  But still getting FTFs.  Not a good day.  After the match, I took 15 dummy rounds, with a shorter COAL (1.125) and cycled them through the gun 3 consecutive times with no FTFs.   Next, return the gun to the baseline - the last configuration that had no issues (which was out of the box, fully stock).  In addition to what was previously polished, I've polished the barrel ramp and breach face.  Also loaded some fresh rounds (Berry's platted 180 grn RNFP over 4.3 TG, COAL 1.12 but still using the WSP primers.  Looking for some federals).  Full disassembly, clean (ultrasonic cleaner), reinstall 13# recoil spring, stock hammer spring, FP and FPB and lube where needed.  Test fire on Friday at MCB Quantico.  If all goes well (and I would be really surprised if it doesn't) I'll shoot another USPSA match on Sunday at Quantico.

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Did you fit and verify functionality of the extreme FPB? It's normally only needed when using the Titan hammer and switching to a 1 piece sear. The limited should have shipped with the 1 piece sear (all SA tanfos seem to be shipped that way)

 

Did you use an extreme "light" firing pin spring? The extreme "light" hammer spring is about 13.8 #, which is heavier than the wolff 13.  i would recommend a wolff 15, Patriotdefense 14 or 15.5# or EG medium.  Polish the hammer hooks lightly and your SA pull should be 2.5ish. If over 3, get  Patriotdefense trigger return and sear springs.

 

On the extended mag bases. Lightly smooth the inside top edge. I had a similar issue initially stuffing 23. It fed one then went constipated. Smoothing and cycling 3 shots then reload a dozen times  fixed it.

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Thanks johnbu.

 

The functionality of the FPB was tested - no issues.  I believe it was the Wolff 13#.  I'll take care of the hammer hooks during  re-assembly.  I cleaned the mags but will take another look.  When you say "...inside top edge."  Can you be a little more specific?  On Glock mags, for example, when using extended base pads (especially the +5 type) the lower inside edge of the mag tube as to be smoothed-out so the mag spring does not get hung-up. Same thing for the Tango mag tube?

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