Unload and show clear dq

[IHAVEGAS]

Same old story.

 

Was distracted, did ulsc by muscle memory without taking my time and without making sure the r.o. was involved.

 

Did not drop the mag, so, boom.

 

Reason for this note, noticed a shooter who followed this process  at the next match

1. Remove mag.

2. Put mag you just removed in mag pouch. This takes enough time to insure that the r.o. has a chance to get where he needs to be.

3. After mag is stowed clear the gun and etcetera. 

 

Seems like a great way to do things. 

 

On the bright side, small squad was short of help so I did all the r.o. stuff on the remaining stages and made their life easier. 

[Sarge]

Sorry to hear that. Shows just how easy it is to lose focus for just an instant.

  I had to DQ a friend who is a very seasoned shooter for the exact same thing. We were both stupified!

[davsco]

bummer for you.  one reason i always tell folks to point it at the berm and not at the ground in front of them.  i wouldn't, though, put your mag back in your mag pouch just so you don't accidentally re-use it.

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, davsco said:

bummer for you.  one reason i always tell folks to point it at the berm and not at the ground in front of them.

Agreed!

1 minute ago, davsco said:

 

  i wouldn't, though, put your mag back in your mag pouch just so you don't accidentally re-use it.

Why? You're done shooting.

[davsco]

2 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Agreed!

Why? You're done shooting.

cuz if you're like me, you will forget and not top it off before the next stage.  i put my used mags in a pocket

Edited September 21, 2017 by davsco

[yukonjon]

cuz if you're like me, you will forget and not top it off before the next stage.  i put my used mags in a pocket

+1 I've definitely made that mistake before. No more half full in my pouches.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, davsco said:

cuz if you're like me, you will forget and not top it off before the next stage.  i put my used mags in a pocket

 

Pocket would work, might be better. 

 

Starting with a half full mag is a risk I could live with though. 

[Sarge]

Oh. I always strip my belt clean, clean mags if needed, reload everything, THEN get back to helping with the stage. I then check every mag again before my next run. If you are not in that habit then by all means carry on. Half empty mags won't work! ?

[motosapiens]

both are right about mags. I used to be careful about not putting half full mags back on my belt, but now I take *all* the mags off my belt, clean the ones that were used, reload them, and leave them *all* in my bag so I don't have to tote them around for the 40 mins or so until its my turn to shoot again. Then when I am in the hole, I visually verify each mag is full before putting it on my belt.

 

As with any other shooting task, I don't think it matters so much what your routine is, as long as you have a routine and you stick to it. If for some reason you have to deviate from it, start paying extra attention.

[nate89]

8 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Oh. I always strip my belt clean, clean mags if needed, reload everything, THEN get back to helping with the stage. I then check every mag again before my next run. If you are not in that habit then by all means carry on. Half empty mags won't work! ?

Well, they do work, they just give you a bit of a surprise about 3-6 rounds into the stage

 

I have a method to ULSC just like I do when I make ready.  I do it the exact same way every time so I hopefully never have a DQ like this.  Good on you for staying and helping, I'm sure it was greatly appreciated.

 

I put the mag in my back pocket, then eject the round, watch it drop, and finally inspect the chamber myself.

[motosapiens]

7 minutes ago, nate89 said:

I put the mag in my back pocket, then eject the round, watch it drop, and finally inspect the chamber myself.

 

you're doing it wrong. Pretty much *all* the top shooters flip and catch rather than letting the round drop dangerously to the rocky ground... 

 

[3gunDQ]

@IHAVEGAS were you done? Did you show the RO clear after instructed? I understand it is on you but the timer runs until last shot and if you are shooting you are not done. 

 

I once took the mag out, saw a mic and made it up with the round in the chamber. I know I should have ate the mic but that is not the point. I made it up, then showed the RO an empty gun. No DQ. If I'm shooting then I'm not done. 

[Sarge]

23 minutes ago, 3gunDQ said:

@IHAVEGAS were you done? Did you show the RO clear after instructed? I understand it is on you but the timer runs until last shot and if you are shooting you are not done. 

 

I once took the mag out, saw a mic and made it up with the round in the chamber. I know I should have ate the mic but that is not the point. I made it up, then showed the RO an empty gun. No DQ. If I'm shooting then I'm not done. 

Depends on when you fire the shot. "If you are finished unload and show clear", you can still shoot. After the command "if clear hammer down and holster" you are prohibited from firing another round. It's in the book. DQ. Sounds like the OP had made it to the latter.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Sarge

[3gunDQ]

3 minutes ago, Sarge said:

After the command "if clear hammer down and holster" you are prohibited from firing another round. It's in the book. DQ.

 

I get it. That is why I asked if he was done and had shown clear. He said "without making sure the RO was involved." This statement leads the reader (me) to believe that he was not receiving instructions from the RO.

[motosapiens]

8 minutes ago, 3gunDQ said:

 

I get it. That is why I asked if he was done and had shown clear. He said "without making sure the RO was involved." This statement leads the reader (me) to believe that he was not receiving instructions from the RO.

good point. if you unload and show clear to no one and shoot another shot into the berm before the RO gives 'if clear HDAH', i don't think that's a dq, even if your intent was obviously to be done.

Edited September 21, 2017 by motosapiens

[AzShooter]

I think that would be a DQ under unsafe gun handling at least.

[motosapiens]

4 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

I think that would be a DQ under unsafe gun handling at least.

you can't just make up things you think are unsafe. if the shot goes over the berm, or within 10' of shooter, sure it's unsafe. Otherwise it's none of your business whether the shooter has a mag in his gun or not while he's shooting.

[JKSNIPER]

Wouldn't it still be a DQ for an A.D. ?

I can't recall the rule off the top of my head but I think I remember there being something about a situation where you can be DQ'D is firing a shot when not intending to even if it's during your firing the match and not when in the ulsc process.

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Oh. I always strip my belt clean, clean mags if needed, reload everything, THEN get back to helping with the stage. I then check every mag again before my next run. If you are not in that habit then by all means carry on. Half empty mags won't work! ?

 

I shoot production.

(Mag fiddling after shooting the stage is a thing with me also)

 

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

you can't just make up things you think are unsafe.

 

10.5 "Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to:"

 

Right or wrong rule wise, I fired a round when I thought the gun was empty and that was good enough for me to feel a dq was righteous and within the intent of the written rules under the umbrella of unsafe gun handling. 

I can see where somebody could debate it, but dq would be my call on the other side of the timer.

[IHAVEGAS]

5 minutes ago, JKSNIPER said:

Wouldn't it still be a DQ for an A.D. ?

 

 

No. 10.4 is worth rereading. If they add "center punched a barrel via oopsie" they'd a had me. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by IHAVEGAS

[JKSNIPER]

[motosapiens]

16 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

10.5 "Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to:"

 

Right or wrong rule wise, I fired a round when I thought the gun was empty and that was good enough for me to feel a dq was righteous and within the intent of the written rules under the umbrella of unsafe gun handling. 

I can see where somebody could debate it, but dq would be my call on the other side of the timer.

 

if you hadn't called 'if clear, HDAH', i'm pretty sure you get overruled. 10.5 doesn't give you the right to say 'i know what the shooter was thinking'.  Of course many shooters would know they did something unsafe, and be bothered by it, and would take a DQ that was not entirely justified by the rules. I know I had a similar-ish situation at a local match a few years ago, where I cooked off an early round after a reload. I started to argue that the mag was seated so the reload was over, and my left hand was even back on the gun, and I was winning the argument, and then I thought about it for a second and said  "f*k it, i know I screwed up and I need to work on that, give me the timer and lets go".

Edited September 22, 2017 by motosapiens

[IHAVEGAS]

Just now, motosapiens said:

 

i'm pretty sure you get overruled.

 

Which would be fine with me and I would learn something, shooter would suffer a little unnecessary stress which I do not like.

 

Anybody have insights what is intended by "10.5  Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to:" ? My assumption was that since it is hard to make a specific rule for every possible unsafe action the intent was to dq for everything that your judgement very strongly indicates is unsafe (beyond reasonable doubt). 

I understand that any time judgement is required things can get a good bit persnickety. 

 

[open17]

18 hours ago, motosapiens said:

good point. if you unload and show clear to no one and shoot another shot into the berm before the RO gives 'if clear HDAH', i don't think that's a dq, even if your intent was obviously to be done.

 

Well--maybe.      Could be a DQ.     10.4.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a handgun.       

[mjmagee67]

A very important point being missed here is he failed to simply follow range commands.

 

The commands is "If finished, unload and SHOW Clear" "if clear, hammer down and holster"

 

You failed to SHOW clear, you failed to check clear for yourself. You simply racked the slide and dropped the hammer. Which is piss poor gun handling.

The clubs I shoot with will make a shooter rerack the slide and hold it open so the RO can check if the gun is clear. So you can see the gun Is clear.  

 

The bottom line is no one had ever won a match in unload and show clear, but many have gone home. Checking a gun to see if it is clear is never an action to take lightly. It is one of the most important things we do in firearm safety. Is the gun unloaded? When you dry fire how many times do you check the gun?