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All of those divisions are USPSA pistol, we are talking about 3 gun.  Why bring our sport down to the level of USPSA?
 

Bring it down??? Uspsa has been around much longer and isn’t for sale like 3gun nation. So I think uspsa is at a much higher level since it’s obviously gonna be around for a while
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Who was talking about three gun nation?   3 gun was here long before 3 gun nation came around to try and make a buck off of it and it will be around long after 3 gun nation has moved on.  USPSA will on the other hand be around for as long as suckers are willing to send them money every month for the privilege of shooting stupid stages in order to get a little card in the mail with a different letter on it.  This thread is if real matches that people actually want to go to should add a carry optics division.  

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19 minutes ago, Stlhead said:

Who was talking about three gun nation?   3 gun was here long before 3 gun nation came around to try and make a buck off of it and it will be around long after 3 gun nation has moved on.  USPSA will on the other hand be around for as long as suckers are willing to send them money every month for the privilege of shooting stupid stages in order to get a little card in the mail with a different letter on it.  This thread is if real matches that people actually want to go to should add a carry optics division.  

USPSA no longer mails out the card....

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CO is a USPSA pistol "division".  HM (Heavy Metal / He-Man) originated in outlaw.  Maybe the original name wasn't adopted by USPSA but the general HM concept was. 

 

There's been swapping between outlaw and USPSA for years.  Where did 140MM rule come from?  Where did the majority of the safety rules come from?  It's been a two way street for the longest time.

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2 hours ago, Stlhead said:

I am sorry for derailing this thread.  It is about if we need to add another division, not classification cards.                                                 

No, its about integrating an existing USPSA division with an existing 3 gun division with no other changes, mostly to help the older fellas but everyone can do it. I think.

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Irons, you can run a red dot on rifle, handgun and shotgun have to stay irons

Practical/Optics, you can run any type of single optic on your rifle, handgun and shotgun have to stay irons

 

Makes a lot of sense, but not really. Irons should be irons, optics optics. Open is pretty open and heavy is heavy. There is really no reason to not allow optics on pistols and as mentioned above slide mounted should be the difference between optics and open. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just shoot open.  We don't need another division.

 

Also USPSA is a very successful organization, so don't be crapping on it.  It is good for action shooting sports and the competition world. The whole 3-gunners vs pistol shooters feud is pointless and immature.

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  • 1 month later...

I’ll bite, what is UML? Sorry if I am just not up on acronyms again. Too many in my life.

On 1/12/2018 at 10:20 AM, timawa said:

Well, here comes UML. The long awaited answer to everyone’s dream of having a separate division (2X4) for carry optics in 3gun.

 

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2 hours ago, USCSBarney said:

I’ll bite, what is UML? Sorry if I am just not up on acronyms again. Too many in my life.

 

 There is a discussion about that in this forum, United Multi-gun League. Very interesting. I guess there’s a division where you can actually use a carry optic pistol.

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2 hours ago, timawa said:

 There is a discussion about that in this forum, United Multi-gun League. Very interesting. I guess there’s a division where you can actually use a carry optic pistol.

Always could use a CO pistol, in open...

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18 hours ago, toothandnail said:

Just what we need more divisions with 4-5 shooters.

is there really any extra work involved on anyone's part to add a division (ie, MD, RO's etc)?  sure, maybe divvying up the prize table at larger matches, but other than that?  also at least one local club has a PCC instead of a handgun option at their 2 and 3 gun matches.  again, who cares, all done thru practiscore, everyone can look at just their own divisional scores if they wish.  what is the harm to MD's, RO's, shooters, anyone else?

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Most major matches require a minimum number of shooters in a division to be recognized (usually 10).  More divisions spreads the same number of shooters among more divisions. Quite often the prize table wouldn't be any larger and wouldn't go as deep into the other divisions. I'd like to shoot Heavy Metal with magnified optics at the big natural terrain matches but that would kill off the other, already thin, Heavy Metal field if they created another division.

 

Quite often I hear hear the argument "I can't be competitive in __________(Tac Ops, Tac Irons, Heavy Metal) because _____________". Chances are if you aren't competitive in one of those divisions now you won't be with an optic on your pistol either. You would likely see some trophy hunting by faster, more talented shooters. As there are more divisions to spread out to, thinning the field out top 15 or top 20 shooters may migrate to where they think they have a better chance of a top 5 finish.

 

The other main argument boils down to "because I want it".

 

We already have an "optic-on-pistol" division. It's called OPEN.

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To reiterate the main idea of this discussion is to broaden the appeal of the sport and allow the “older generation”, which I am quickly joining admittedly, to continue in the sport without obliterateing their retirement. 

 

Prize table discussions have merit but my intent was the state and growth of the sport. 

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Seems unneeded. There is a division for carry optics... it’s called open. If you are an old dude then shoot and have fun. If you are a young dude shoot and have fun.

 

If you need an ego protecting division for CO maybe you should consider a hobby where every snowflake gets a trophy. 

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13 minutes ago, 3gunDQ said:

Seems unneeded. There is a division for carry optics... it’s called open. If you are an old dude then shoot and have fun. If you are a young dude shoot and have fun.

 

If you need an ego protecting division for CO maybe you should consider a hobby where every snowflake gets a trophy. 

 

And I am sure many felt the same in one division days. 

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2 hours ago, USCSBarney said:

Prize table discussions have merit but my intent was the state and growth of the sport. 

The sport as a whole and it's growth seem, to me, to be in pretty good shape. Just check out the increase in number of matches (club and major) over the last 3-5yrs. The way to grow in a long term and healthy way isn't through special accommodations for every different gear fetish or to make it easy for new shooters. It's organically with things like introducing and mentoring new shooters to the sport (young, old or in between). Growth for the sake of just growing can, very often, lead to disaster.

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