USCSBarney Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 While shooting a major match not long ago I noticed my pistol shots were not what they used to be. It is most likely due to a combo of things, one of which is the eyes aging along with the rest of me. It started a loose general discussion with some shooters I know and got a rather wide variety of responses. This prompted me to start this post. What are are your opinions on the subject/idea? Option for Limited or Practical? New Tactical Division with "Factory" like rules? &$£€ no we don't need another division? Just looking to to start a debate/discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Open or Unlimited for guns with dots. With 3 guns involved there are too many possibilities for too many divisions. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I think that there should be a 2Gun Division as mentioned in the other thread and Carry Optics pistols can be shot in that division. It looks like there's not that many folks shooting Carry Optics in USPSA anyways so why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 IMA Stealth divison, or Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Ghey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman_usmc Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I'd like to see a 2 gun or even 3 gun factory or tactical type division that allowed a carry optics gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Dan Sierpina said: IMA Stealth divison, or Open. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleaay78 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 It's only a matter of time before pistol red-dots are legal in Tac ops...we allow red-dot rifle optics in 'irons'...a red dot on a pistol isn't as much of an advantage as big sticks and comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamspartacus Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 2 hours ago, doubleaay78 said: It's only a matter of time before pistol red-dots are legal in Tac ops...we allow red-dot rifle optics in 'irons'...a red dot on a pistol isn't as much of an advantage as big sticks and comps. Doubt it. A red dot on a pistol is an advantage. Like was said above, stealth division is a great idea to integrate it into 3 gun. I would like to see stealth become more widespread, I just think it should be renamed "modified" as stealth is a misnomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 15 hours ago, doubleaay78 said: It's only a matter of time before pistol red-dots are legal in Tac ops...we allow red-dot rifle optics in 'irons'...a red dot on a pistol isn't as much of an advantage as big sticks and comps. I hope your right and I agree its no different than a red-dot in Irons. I have been shooting a C.O.R.E. equipped M&P for about a year. I need reading glasses and the front sight is not very clear any more. No problem shooting iron sighted pistol in pistol only competition with my RX-500 glasses. Not usable in 3-gun Tac-optic as the rifle optic won't work with the RX-500 glasses I need to see pistol sights. Solution was a Leopold Delta point on my M&P. But I'm not about to shoot and be competitive in Open. I have done many drills with both the DP and Irons on my M&P and Rarely can I run a stage faster as with Irons. But I can see the DP clearly with standard safety glasses. I bet there are many in my age group with the same dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balwolley Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I don't see a problem with it. A good friend of mine and I both shoot open. I am running a tanfo open pistol because it's my only option, but he has a DVC open pistol and a M&P core. When we shoot 3 gun vs uspsa his first choice is the m&p. No external safety to put on, much more secure holster (my opinion) and he can run 9 minor very reliably. I feel like the shotgun, and rifle are where the open comes into play. Even then, unless the shotgun is tricked out, I don't see a huge advantage on MOST stages around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) I shoot iron sight pistols AND open pistols. There is a definite advantage with the dot, mostly on tight targets and longer ranges, but it does help up close as well. Often times I find myself doing a stage one way with one gun, but would have done it totally differently with the other. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon in our neck of the woods...sorry. jj Eta; don't be afraid of open, embrace the dark side! Edited August 29, 2017 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just shoot your dot in open and be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Stlhead said: Just shoot your dot in open and be happy. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCSBarney Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Has anyone heard of "Stealth" possibly being considered in 3GN or more outlaw matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 As a strong advocate of Stealth, I have had several outlaw match MDs ask me for details, telling me they are recognizing it at their matches. However, I can't say how much traction they are getting. Barriers to entry are low, so hopefully it is working well for them. I recently proposed to USPSA that they adopt something akin to Stealth in their 2018 rules revision, but adapting the handgun rules to better align with Limited and Carry Optics handgun rules. I have heard nothing back, however, and to be frank I am not too optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 8/28/2017 at 7:24 PM, mscott said: Open or Unlimited for guns with dots. With 3 guns involved there are too many possibilities for too many divisions. Just my opinion. ^^^This^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 8/30/2017 at 5:16 PM, RiggerJJ said: Exactly! Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattooo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 IMA Stealth divison, or Open. I agree +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) On 8/30/2017 at 10:27 AM, Stlhead said: Just shoot your dot in open and be happy. this is what I have done with my MP9 Carry Optics back up gun, works great. No safety to engage, accuracy and speed fine for 3Gun, don't have to worry about the gun if I go prone. What do I care if the top Open shooters beat me? They would no matter what division I shoot. Actually it is surprising how many Open shooters I can beat this way considering that I am really a Tac-Optics shooter using Tac-Optics equipement except for the Carry Optics dot. Eric Edited September 12, 2017 by eric4069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 8/28/2017 at 3:29 PM, USCSBarney said: While shooting a major match not long ago I noticed my pistol shots were not what they used to be. It is most likely due to a combo of things, one of which is the eyes aging along with the rest of me. It started a loose general discussion with some shooters I know and got a rather wide variety of responses. This prompted me to start this post. What are are your opinions on the subject/idea? Option for Limited or Practical? New Tactical Division with "Factory" like rules? &$£€ no we don't need another division? Just looking to to start a debate/discussion. I have shot USPSA since its beginning and before. The more divisions to my way of thinking the better, I shoot all of them, I get tired of one then switch to another it keeps me interested in the different shooting styles and lets my brain work a bit more trying to figure out the stages from a revolver point of view to the now fun division of PCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 There should be two divisions. Open, and limited. Open should be open, use whatever you want and as many as you want, as long as it is not a hazard or damage the targets. Limited would be scope tac. why bother with anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCSBarney Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 The various divisions make room for those that like a different challenge. Though I do agree that several divisions at a major match is more than feasible there can be too many at some (ergo no heavy at some due to low participation). The “Stealth” idea to me is great, especially at the local level, to keep those who aren’t the keenest of sight keep playing without pooping a ton of $$ into an open rig. I would even let me to see a “Patrol” type class with a red dot on two or all three guns but limit mag size. Maybe an option for Factory??? Again in I am just trying to spur the discussion as I want as many as possible in the sport. I love the 22 division in 3GN. Had several kids that could come out at my old club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 On 8/30/2017 at 10:27 AM, Stlhead said: Just shoot your dot in open and be happy. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 A Carry optic pistol and an open pistol are not even in the same ballpark...........not even in the same zip code. Those suggesting to "Just shoot Open" either have never shot a carry optic pistol or are just in denial and want more people to shoot open for personal reasons. It easily could be allowed in Tac-Optic with very little change to the rule book and no additional divisions. And it would not be an advantage that is any different than when dots started to be allowed on limited rifles. It has always been strange that we have a division called Tac-Optic and only ONE optic is allowed out of three firearms. But then again if this were allowed, there might be an exodus from Open, which might kill the division. I can see where the Die Hard open shooters would be afraid of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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