Overscore Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) As a USPSA shooter who shoots merely for the fun of it as well as more practice with my EDC gun, I'm curious about the rationale behind the rules of production and carry optics. Currently, I just shoot limited, because I shoot the gun I carry, and I carry it cocked and locked (CZ 85 Combat). I want to shoot carry optics, but in order to do so, I'd have to manually lower the hammer and take a double action first shot (no decocker). This, I do not ever want to do, so if I get a carry optic, I'll have to shoot in Open. What I cannot understand is what the logic is behind the rule for not being able to start cocked and locked. If I were shooting a striker fired gun, it'd essentially be cocked and unlocked. I'm not complaining about the rule; I truly just don't understand the thinking behind it. Can anyone explain why this restriction exists? I don't ever shoot my gun in double action, and it seems odd that I can't shoot it in its intended way in carry optics. Edited August 15, 2017 by Overscore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) First thing comes to mind. Single action autos (1911)are not allowed in Production/CO. So, Allowing a DA/SA gun to start in SA would make not fly. SA triggers are so much better than striker guns so allowing DA/SA to start SA would be a distinct advantage. Of course, nothing says you can't draw and cock the hammer. Edited August 15, 2017 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 competitive equity. not all guns in the division are da/sa. in an attempt to create a level playing field between striker fired guns that have the same trigger pull all the time and da/sa guns that have a "bad" first trigger pull and a "great" second and remaining trigger pulls. that's the rationale as i understand it. i find most frustration people feel about rule(s) that differ from what they do "in real life" are ones related to competitive equity within a division and/or consistent rules application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I don't get it either. Having said that, you can get a smooth DA from your CZ. Lots of dry fire and it's a non issue. You don't have to click off the safety either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 When the buzzer go off you will not know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I just don't understand why anyone has an issue with DA pulls. Dry fire for a week and you shouldn't even notice the difference under time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 OP starts of with "but it's not what i do away from matches, why do i have to do it at matches?" to paraphrase. because games have rules. simply that. instead of of focusing on the "why" of a problem instead focus on your own "how" or "what" you're going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, wingnut said: When the buzzer go off you will not know the difference. When the buzzer goes of you *shouldn't* know the difference. OP... if you are "shoot merely for the fun of it" run cocked and locked in open! Open kicks ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Its natural for people to spend 10x the energy to get around a small issue than it would take to just overcome the perceived problem. I speak from experience! Proper training and the "problem" will become a skill. Sounds like something youd read on a fortune cookie! It's true though. I actually like the DA pull on the CZ. Yes the SA is better but its not bad once you spend the time to get good at it. Like Rowdy says, the rule is to level the playing field as much as possible. Production is supposed to be somewhat of a stock type fire arm that resembles a carry gun. And since the 1911 already has its own division that is SA only, the rules for DA first pull are what they are for guns that have the DA/SA feature in Prod. I may be going out on a limb here but a lot of guns are meant to be carried hammer down. Obviously, this only applies to guns that have the DA capability. The glock isnt carried cocked and unlocked. The sricker doesn't get cocked until the trigger gets pulled. Essentially making it a DA gun. If i carried a CZ I would prefer a decocker vs the same gun set up with a thumb saftey even though for competition I'd want the gun with the saftey. Not so I can use it but because the guns without the decocker usually have a cleaner trigger pull. Same goes with glocks. I don't swap any internall parts in my carry glocks. I make do with the crappy trigger because its more relaible for carry. Though, my gammer glocks have all the internals changed or tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) I suspect that most people who carry a DA gun carry it with the hammer down. I know I do. I know all the sworn officers in my agency do. It's awesome that the OP carries his cocked and locked, and he is welcome to shoot it in some other division like limited where that is the norm. If you don't want to manually lower the hammer, that's fine with me. It's easy tho, and even kids and texans can learn to do it safely. Edited August 15, 2017 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhall Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 6 hours ago, rowdyb said: because games have rules. simply that. Bingo! Kind of like asking why you have to bounce the basketball when you move, and once you stop, you can't start again. All rules for games are random, but the rules are what make the game the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate89 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I agree that a DA first shot is readily practiced to the point that you can comfortably and quickly take the first shot in DA, then continue the rest of the stage in SA. Although I see the rationale behind wanting to compete as you carry, I think there is a bit of a crossroads to consider. Are you shooting USPSA in order to become more proficient with your carry gun in the way you carry it, or are you shooting USPSA to become the most competitive that you can be? If the former, shoot the match exactly as you would carry, and don't worry about what division you shoot in. If the latter, get the equipment and use it in a way to be the most competitive in the chosen division. Example: I carry a Sig 226 or 229 in an appendix holster. I compete in Limited with a 9mm 226 carried in an appendix holster and mag pouch (both concealed), and shoot it DA first shot. Could I bump my standing a bit with a .40 Edge and race gear? Sure, but I am happy shooting with the equipment I already own, and maybe down the road I'll have the money to change equipment. Also, I wouldn't automatically assume you can't be successful in the match just because your gear is not the absolute best for the division. Just my .02.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 If you want to compete as you carry, just use your carry gear and practice like a mad man. Our section Limited division champion shot a G34 from a AIWB holster and reloaded form concealment as well. That's right a guy shooting a GLOCK at Minor PF beat ALL the guys with custom 2011's shooting Major from race holsters. In the end the gun and gear is a much smaller percentage of your score and match placement than most people can bring themselves to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overscore Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Thanks for the feedback. I understand a bit better now why things are the way they are. I'll just shoot in open, because I'm really shooting just to compete against myself, and the most important thing (for me) is to shoot what/how I carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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