pete627 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I apologize in advance if this horse has died several times in the past ... or if it doesn't even belong here. Having come up dry using "search" I just have to ask ... USPSA rules state clearly that metal targets should not be engaged closer than 23 feet (2.1.3 / 10.5.17) ... it's a DQ. I know "Steel Challenge" is under USPSA's wing ... (it is on it's website anyhow!!) ... and that it has it's own rulebook ... but ... There are three (Steel Challenge) courses of fire that employ targets closer than 23 feet. 5 to Go has one at 21' Roundabout has two at 21' Smoke and Hope has two at 21' I am a pretty new shooter but have seen at least one matche (level 1 USPSA) where starting was delayed to correct a stage employing a piece of steel at 7 yards. I was just getting ready to shoot a Steel Challenge match and the 21' steel just popped out at me ... I wonder if anyone ever requested bringing the USPSA rule to 21' for a little consistency ... (easy to remember too)??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I can remember 23 and 26 just fine. I don't shoot SC so I really don't care what they do. BUT, since it's all under USPSA now, one would think if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 heck, in multigun, shotgun steel can be as close as 16', and that goes for birdshot AND buckshot!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Smoke and hope: The right edge of the plate is ~24.0637' from the left front corner of the shooting box 5 to go: The left edge of the plate is ~ 25.86' from the right front corner of the shooting box Roundabout is the only problem child... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete627 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChuckS said: Smoke and hope: The right edge of the plate is ~24.0637' from the left front corner of the shooting box 5 to go: The left edge of the plate is ~ 25.86' from the right front corner of the shooting box Roundabout is the only problem child... Wow!! You calculated the hypotenuse ... cool ... thanks!! Yeah ... both the roundabout targets ... Edited August 15, 2017 by pete627 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I doesn't hurt that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Under USPSA handgun rules, 26ft is the construction guidance to the fault line so that the competitor may fault the line without being unsafe. 23ft is the DQ criterion. My assumption is that the SC distances date back to before the idea of coming under USPSA was even a twinkle in anyone's eye, and USPSA can't really change it as all the records were set at the shorter distances. The rationalle for tolerating the shorter distances might be that SC plates are not rigidly secured and thus are more likely to absorb the projectile's energy rather than reflect it back at the shooter... just a guess on my part. I would hope someone at USPSA is able to articulate an answer in the event that someone was hurt at an SC event and a lawsuit ensued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Even at 30ft it can be unsafe. Just saying..... Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/14/2017 at 5:58 PM, Sarge said: I can remember 23 and 26 just fine. I don't shoot SC so I really don't care what they do. BUT, since it's all under USPSA now, one would think if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. Different set of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/14/2017 at 5:46 PM, pete627 said: I apologize in advance if this horse has died several times in the past ... or if it doesn't even belong here. Having come up dry using "search" I just have to ask ... USPSA rules state clearly that metal targets should not be engaged closer than 23 feet (2.1.3 / 10.5.17) ... it's a DQ. I know "Steel Challenge" is under USPSA's wing ... (it is on it's website anyhow!!) ... and that it has it's own rulebook ... but ... There are three (Steel Challenge) courses of fire that employ targets closer than 23 feet. 5 to Go has one at 21' Roundabout has two at 21' Smoke and Hope has two at 21' I am a pretty new shooter but have seen at least one matche (level 1 USPSA) where starting was delayed to correct a stage employing a piece of steel at 7 yards. I was just getting ready to shoot a Steel Challenge match and the 21' steel just popped out at me ... I wonder if anyone ever requested bringing the USPSA rule to 21' for a little consistency ... (easy to remember too)??? USPSA and SC are two different games, two different sets of rules. USPSA you can't start touching a gun. USPSA can't use .22's and in SC .22's (Pistols and Rifles) are started from the low ready, safety can be off. it is easy to remember the 23' and 26' rule, I shoot USPSA MG so we have a couple more to remember, not a big deal, no reason to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhall Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Why is the basketball hoop 10 feet? Pretty sure the 23' is a random number that sounded reasonable. I'm sure there is absolutely zero science involved in making the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 On 8/20/2017 at 8:58 AM, bret said: USPSA you can't start touching a gun. Yes you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler2you Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, ChuckS said: Yes you can Has there been a clarification to 8.2.3? Or are you talking about unavoidable touching with the lower arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, tyler2you said: Has there been a clarification to 8.2.3? Or are you talking about unavoidable touching with the lower arms? Unavoidable touching AND something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 He thinks he's being clever. He's referring to rifles . You can't touch a handgun until the start signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, teros135 said: He thinks he's being clever. He's referring to rifles . You can't touch a handgun until the start signal. Bingo (But Bret didn't say "handgun" ). Just getting ready for some major match work and a re-cert exam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 4 hours ago, teros135 said: He thinks he's being clever. He's referring to rifles . You can't touch a handgun until the start signal. Correct, you also can't handle firearms unless at the safe area or under the direct supervision of an RO, unless it is a PCC then you can screw around with it. Why 2 different sets of rules and safety standards for Pistol and PCC? If it is unsafe to handle a pistol while you aren't in a safe area, why is it safe to handle a PCC while not in a safe area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, bret said: Correct, you also can't handle firearms unless at the safe area or under the direct supervision of an RO, unless it is a PCC then you can screw around with it. Why 2 different sets of rules and safety standards for Pistol and PCC? If it is unsafe to handle a pistol while you aren't in a safe area, why is it safe to handle a PCC while not in a safe area? Unless I am misunderstanding things, its also different between rimfire rifles and PCC. I only find reference by the appendix X allowing PCC to be brought vertically to the line but not rimfire rifles. No? And that seems to be subject to change with the new rulebook submission for approval. Edited August 23, 2017 by Hammer002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 What does PCC have to do with steel target location? Does USPSA make steel distance also a course construction criterion, like IPSC where the minimum is 7 meters (23') if there is a barrier, and 8 meters (26') if there's only a fault line? Quote Whenever metal targets or metal hard cover are used in a course of fire, precautions must be taken so that competitors and Match Officials maintain a minimum distance of 7 meters from them while they are being shot. Where possible, this should be done with physical barriers. If Fault Lines are used to limit the approach to metal targets, they must be placed at least 8 meters from the targets.... (my emphasis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 10 hours ago, perttime said: What does PCC have to do with steel target location? Does USPSA make steel distance also a course construction criterion, like IPSC where the minimum is 7 meters (23') if there is a barrier, and 8 meters (26') if there's only a fault line? (my emphasis) Try to keep up. Possibly read the thread and know the discussion at hand and that your question was answered in post #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 12 hours ago, Hammer002 said: Try to keep up. Possibly read the thread and know the discussion at hand and that your question was answered in post #7. Not the one about PCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 21 hours ago, Hammer002 said: Try to keep up. Possibly read the thread and know the discussion at hand and that your question was answered in post #7. To be fair, you and bret went off-topic with your discussion about various rifle rules in posts #17 & 18. I think that's why he was asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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