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Hammbone

Stock II 147gr N320?

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1 minute ago, emjei said:

Is that 3.3 a 3.3ish ???

I always do the 10 pull test and load to exacts

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Sigh... short answer, yes. Drives me nuts. I've done said test but don't have it accessible right now. 

After being involved with doing gravemetric tests at work for cleanliness, trying to accurately measure down to 10mg with less than 1mg variation in a gauge R&R, I realize how inaccurate reloading equipment is. We bought a $7,000 scale in order to pull this off.  I tried to buy outer old scale but no luck.

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And here I am complaining about my $20 Frankford Scale......lol

Sigh... short answer, yes. Drives me nuts. I've done said test but don't have it accessible right now. 
After being involved with doing gravemetric tests at work for cleanliness, trying to accurately measure down to 10mg with less than 1mg variation in a gauge R&R, I realize how inaccurate reloading equipment is. We bought a $7,000 scale in order to pull this off.  I tried to buy outer old scale but no luck.


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I keep seing Load Data of 3.2 for a 147gr Bullet

Either my two Stock 2 are lazy or 3.2 means 3.29 ........ both guns were in the 860 FPS with 3.20

3.30 tests coming soon

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I’m using 3.2 with 147 Berry’s and get 130 pf.


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I must say...... Loads are always 3.2 , 3.3 etc etc......buuuuut there is a world between 3.20 and 3.30

I have some 3.25 to test.....update coming soon



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Favorite load for a reamed Stock 2 is 147 hp Zero or 147 RMR full metal FP on 3.3~3.4 N320  at 1.170  with Federal or Win primers on a 550 Dillon . Reasonably accurate , super soft , sweet shooting loading . Sprung with an 8 lb recoil spring , may be a little lazy for some .

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11 hours ago, emjei said:

I must say...... Loads are always 3.2 , 3.3 etc etc......buuuuut there is a world between 3.20 and 3.30

I have some 3.25 to test.....update coming soon



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I would love to know you're equipment's capability of holding 0.05gr.  Not only your dispensing equipment, but your measuring instruments as well.  If you can pull it off, I want to know how you're doing it! I'm not be sarcastic, I'm serious.  I fret over details like this.

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I would love to know you're equipment's capability of holding 0.05gr.  Not only your dispensing equipment, but your measuring instruments as well.  If you can pull it off, I want to know how you're doing it! I'm not be sarcastic, I'm serious.  I fret over details like this.

10 drop test.....by the 5th pull you should know if you are in the .05 area  

 

3.25 = 32.5 at the 10th drop

 

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51 minutes ago, Hammbone said:

I would love to know you're equipment's capability of holding 0.05gr.  Not only your dispensing equipment, but your measuring instruments as well.  If you can pull it off, I want to know how you're doing it! I'm not be sarcastic, I'm serious.  I fret over details like this.

 

Sartorius scales and Ohaus can do it.  Practum 124-1S is one, but the investment is a grand or better. And you need environmental controls.

 

I've given up on finding "perfection" in loads. 135+ pf with accuracy is all i need. 

 

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30 minutes ago, johnbu said:

 

Sartorius scales and Ohaus can do it.  Practum 124-1S is one, but the investment is a grand or better. And you need environmental controls.

 

I've given up on finding "perfection" in loads. 135+ pf with accuracy is all i need. 

 

I agree 100% with this!!!  I have found that the user (ME) operating the firearm has more variation than any other component or step in my process of reloading.  I have cooled way down on fretting over the details compared to when I first started.  Now, if I were doing long-range bullseye rifle, that might be a different story.

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1 hour ago, emjei said:

10 drop test.....by the 5th pull you should know if you are in the .05 area  

 

3.25 = 32.5 at the 10th drop

 

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I've done a few capability studies on my Lee Auto Disk as well as my Lee Auto Drum.  To do a true capability study, you need more than 30 specimen (30 drops).  I calculated a Cpk, but it's a bit skewed because you have to have an upper and lower control limit that is set by the tolerance, which in the case of dropping powder I don't know what that is. If it were a print dimension for a part I make, that's determined with GD&T tolerance stack up, but in the case of reloading, it's arbitrary. Nonetheless, I decided to use ±0.1gr as my tolerance.  It turns out my Lee Auto Drum is has a Cpk of 0.43, which is horrible!  Cpk tells you what percentage of your product (or powder drop in this case) is going to fall within spec.  Here are process yields for some various Cpk values:

 

Cpk     Process Yield

0.5     86.8%

0.8     98.4%

1.0     99.7%

1.2     99.97%

1.33   99.99%

 

In manufacturing, a LOT of money is spent on tooling and process controls to achieve a Cpk of 1.33 or higher!  I would suspect one would have to spend a LOT of money on custom built reloading equipment to do the same.

I think I'll spend more time and energy perfecting myself before I worry any more about what my powder drop can do.

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On 8/15/2017 at 2:55 PM, nomore606 said:

My favorite load is coated lead 147 with 3.6 vv320. Right now my most accurate bullets out of my stock 3 are the blue bullet 147 RN

 

agree  147 lead rn bullet with 3.5 n 320 coal 1.136  fps 910 922 922 905 924 920 hornady lnl ap

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3 hours ago, emjei said:

10 drop test.....by the 5th pull you should know if you are in the .05 area  

 

3.25 = 32.5 at the 10th drop

 

This is what I do. I want to know if I’m at 3.72gr or 3.79gr *average* charge weight. A sub-$100 scale isn’t precise enough to tell me until I’ve taken an average of 4 to 5 drops. I take a ten drop average once I’m completely dialed in, and that goes into my loading data.

 

I laugh at guys measuring their crimp with calipers, too. Your $40 digital calipers are only rated  to +/- .001” in most cases. Measuring bullet or case diameter requires far more precision than they offer.  ;) 

 

Use a micrometer which has the resolution for this task, or simply eyeball it against a striaghtedge and remove all traces of belling.

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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This is what I do. I want to know if I’m at 3.72gr or 3.79gr *average* charge weight. A sub-$100 scale isn’t precise enough to tell me until I’ve taken an average of 4 to 5 drops. I take a ten drop average once I’m completely dialed in, and that goes into my loading data.
 
I laugh at guys measuring their crimp with calipers, too. Your $40 digital calipers are only rated  to +/- .001” in most cases. Measuring bullet or case diameter requires far more precision than they offer.   
 
Use a micrometer which has the resolution for this task, or simply eyeball it against a striaghtedge and remove all traces of belling.
 
 
Thank u Memphis

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3.5 320 in my Aussy stock II makes 136 pf.

tested it yesterday, same ammo in both regular lenght and aussy.

 

aussy makes 25 ft fps more with same ammo. 👍🏻

 

Unrelated, still undecided on recoil spring. Leaning towards 6 but find the 8 works just as well. More testing on that to come, however.... you might see me asking questions in the 2011 sub forum soon 

:)

 

.40 major here I come

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With N320 at 3.30 with 1.140 OAL

(.478 combustion space)

 

Gave me 885FPS on my 2 Stock II making 130PF

 

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So here is my reloading data from the last several years. All using VV N320 and coated bullets. The bullets were manufactured by either Leather Head/Gallant or Acme. I've found that Leather Head/Gallant and Acme are pretty much interchangeable, I believe they use the same molds. All loads where using mixed brass and Federal SPP (either match or standard). 

 

124gr 3.8gr N320 COL 1.115ish, Av Vel 1046, SD 12.4, PF 130.8

135gr 3.5gr N320 COL 1.115ish, Av Vel 988.9, SD 9.1, PF 132.5

147gr 3.4gr N320 COL 1.120ish, Av Vel 892, SD 9.6, PF 131.1

 

I have found in my guns that the 124gr and 135gr shoot the same as far as group size at 25 years the 147 seem to open up a bit. All three will hold an A-zone pretty easily at 25 yards if I do my part. I went with the 135gr, they are a happy medium...…..

 

On a side note everyone of these loads has been chrono'ed at LII or LIII matches and they reinforced my data.....

 

As with all things in life YMMV......good luck. 

Edited by mjmagee67

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