Flare on powder drop isn't holding bullet

[sstephns]

I've been running my 650 for a month or two now and one thing I've noticed is that I hate the flare on the powder drop. It seems like it doesn't want to flare the case in a way that makes it hold the bullet once it's set in it. Loading 40 with 200gr blue bullets.

 

I swapped my Hornady powder drop into my tool head and the flare from the ptx just holds the bullet perfectly 90% of the time. I feel like I have to guide the bullet up to the die with my Dillon powder drop doing the flare. 

 

Is there something I'm missing here? They're both adjusted to just barely flare the case mouth. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by sstephns

[dillon]

How much do you flare your cases? For coated bullets, we recommend flaring the case mouth .015"-.020".

[sstephns]

I haven't measured. I've always done it by feel, as little as possible to get a satisfactory result. Just barely visible is my usual rule. I'll play with it tonight, see where it's at, and if it's under what's recommended I'll adjust out to it and see how it works. 

 

I assume the .015-.020" is beyond the finished dimension of the case. So 0.423 + 0.015.

 

Thanks for the feedback, hopefully I can get it consistent.

[Sarge]

Coated bullets are generally fatter than jacketed and need more belling. If your bell is just barely visible, that's not enough.

[78Staff]

Yep, as Sarge and Dillon both advised - coated requires more bell for sure than jackets or plated.  I typically start at .020 for coated and tweak a bit from there.  If  you are used to belling for jackets, coated bell will look like way too much until you get used to it :).

 

At this point I"m really only loading Jacketed JHP for 10mm anyway, everything else (including range 10mm) I've pretty much gone to coated.  Just received an 8K order from ACME, in fact.  I have a few boxes of xtreeme 45acp plated left, but once those are gone I don't expect to order anything except coated, lead for my 44's, or JHP's.

[sstephns]

Alright. I made comparisons tonight. They Dillon flare doesn't even begin to hold the bullet correctly.  The Hornady ptx, I can set it into with a slight amount of pressure, turn it upside down, and it won't fall out. 

 

Dillon flare, .015" won't stand up

 

PTX .010", bullet stays in upside down

Edited August 11, 2017 by sstephns

[sstephns]

This is what happens when I run the flare out to 0.020". The bullet seater die crushes the case mouth. 

 

The opening to the Lee bullet seater die is only 0.445", I cannot believe that the flare needs to be 0.443" (od) 0.420" (id) to accept a bullet that's 0.400.

Edited August 11, 2017 by sstephns

[sstephns]

This is what happens when I run the flare out to 0.020". The bullet seater die crushes the case mouth. 

[858]

I've been using Double Alpha expanders for both 9mm and 40. I agree that you need more flair for coated bullets but the DAA expanders have a different profile than the OE Dillon and allow the bullet to insert right in. 

[Sarge]

What does your flair die look like? You mean powder funnel right?

 That pic is just not enough flair.

[sstephns]

6 hours ago, Sarge said:

What does your flair die look like? You mean powder funnel right?

 That pic is just not enough flair.

 

I'm flaring on the powder drop. The problem I'm having with the Dillon powder funnel is that all it does is make a bigger bell. This is the hornady ptx that goes in their powder drop similar to the Dillon, but you can see it doesn't just create a large bell in the way the Dillon powder funnel does.

 

I also run an EGW undersized die in station 1 for what it's worth. 

[sstephns]

20 hours ago, dillon said:

How much do you flare your cases? For coated bullets, we recommend flaring the case mouth .015"-.020".

 

Can you tell me what the diameter of the expander should be? I'd like to check mine

[pete627]

10 hours ago, 858 said:

I've been using Double Alpha expanders for both 9mm and 40. I agree that you need more flair for coated bullets but the DAA expanders have a different profile than the OE Dillon and allow the bullet to insert right in. 

+1 

 

I have been using the Double Alpha (Mr Bullet Feeder) 9 and 40 powder funnels as well (with both coated and plated bullets ... and I don't even have a bullet feeder). 

You drop the bullet in and it isn't going anywhere. 

[sstephns]

1 minute ago, pete627 said:

+1 

 

I have been using the Double Alpha (Mr Bullet Feeder) 9 and 40 powder funnels as well (with both coated and plated bullets ... and I don't even have a bullet feeder). 

You drop the bullet in and it isn't going anywhere. 

 

Quite the opposite experience I'm having with the stock powder funnel. There's a lot of hoping and praying going that the bullet doesn't lean over and hit the mouth of the seating die.

Edited August 11, 2017 by sstephns

[jhgtyre]

15 hours ago, sstephns said:

This is what happens when I run the flare out to 0.020". The bullet seater die crushes the case mouth. 

I don't think they knew you were using the Lee seating die when they gave you those numbers.  The Dillon dies have a flared lead that guides the case/projectile in without crushing the edge of the case.  That pic of the .0015 flare with the bullet leaning a bit to one side is usually not a problem with Dillon dies.  The flare is there to facilitate progressive reloading.

With the Lee dies you'll have to make sure the flare is just enough to hold the projectile in, keep it straight, all while making sure there isn't so little flare that you end up shaving the coating off of the bullet.

IIRC Sarge, who has commented in this thread, is a fan of the Lee dies.  Perhaps he has some insight into the correct amount of case flare for their seater?

[muncie21]

Not sure about the rest of the folks here, but I use my left hand to stabilize the bullet as it is going up into the seating die.  If I were to drop a bullet on a 'bell'd' case and let it ride up to the seating die unassisted, it wouldn't work so well.

[sstephns]

7 hours ago, muncie21 said:

Not sure about the rest of the folks here, but I use my left hand to stabilize the bullet as it is going up into the seating die.  If I were to drop a bullet on a 'bell'd' case and let it ride up to the seating die unassisted, it wouldn't work so well.

 

That's not acceptable for me. The bullet should be held by the slightly expanded case firm enough to make it into the seating die without falling over. 

[sstephns]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:47 PM, dillon said:

How much do you flare your cases? For coated bullets, we recommend flaring the case mouth .015"-.020".

 

My expander on the powder funnel measures 0.395, is that correct for the W funnel

[pete627]

1 hour ago, sstephns said:

 

That's not acceptable for me. The bullet should be held by the slightly expanded case firm enough to make it into the seating die without falling over. 

Check out the video on the mrbulletfeeder powder funnel ... They cost $40 but IMHO the best thing I ever did to my 650.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICDMj0MJUXU

 

I use a lee seater and actually got a pretty good adjustment that worked fine with the Dillon funnel but always had to keep my eye (and sometimes my finger) on those guys as they moved to the next position ... With the MBF funnel it is something I never ever worry about anymore ... Lotsa threads and testimonials on these guys ... 

[camaross400]

I use the Mr. Bulletfeeder expander too to bell my cases, and it works great. I use it on my 1050. My bullets stay right where they are supposed to be no matter how fast I go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sstephns]

9 hours ago, pete627 said:

Check out the video on the mrbulletfeeder powder funnel ... They cost $40 but IMHO the best thing I ever did to my 650.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICDMj0MJUXU

 

I use a lee seater and actually got a pretty good adjustment that worked fine with the Dillon funnel but always had to keep my eye (and sometimes my finger) on those guys as they moved to the next position ... With the MBF funnel it is something I never ever worry about anymore ... Lotsa threads and testimonials on these guys ... 

I ordered the gs funnel off eBay until i get a bullet feeder

[Jammer1911]

So does the Mr. Bullet powder funnel work in the Dillon die?

[pete627]

17 minutes ago, Jammer1911 said:

So does the Mr. Bullet powder funnel work in the Dillon die?

Yeah ... it just drops in the Dillon powder die like the Dillon powder funnel does ... 

Watch the video!! 

[Jammer1911]

Thanks!