Alliant Sport Pistol Load Data

[csbelew]

On 11/12/2018 at 12:38 AM, csbelew said:

I'd like to share my results loading 9mm with Sport Pistol. My goal is to make USPSA minor power factor legal loads and super light loads for steel challenge for my pistols and my PCC. I started out with DWBSig's data and have been working from there. I had been using Titegroup and 231. The Titegroup I didn't like, to snappy. The 231 shot well but was smoky and dirty. Sport Pistol feels similar to 231 to me, but I am able to get the same or better velocities with less powder, and it is cleaner, not totally smokeless but close. For comparison, using 3.7 grains of 231 in the Sig 226 got me 128 power factor.  I made up some test loads and only tested for velocity. I tested 103 grain and 147 grain poly coated bullets that a local guy makes. They are sized to .356 after coating. I shoot USPSA, Steel Challenge and various other outlaw USPSA style matches. I use a Dillon 650 press.

 

103 grain Truncated Cone Poly coated bullet

mixed range pickup brass

CCI 500 primers

1.090 OAL

M&P 9L Performance with Vortex Venom Red Dot, 5" stock non ported barrel 13# IMSI recoil spring on stock guide rod

3.2 grains 757/770/789 FPS 80 Power Factor  FAILED

3.4 grains 826/840/836 FPS 86 Power Factor FAILED

3.6 grains 983/951/957 FPS 100 Power Factor Functioned but barely

 

Sig 226 4.5" barrel stock recoil spring, stock guide rod

3.2 grains 816/855/821 FPS 85 Power Factor FAILED

3.4 grains 863/859/848 FPS 88 Power Factor FAILED

3.6 grains 967/969/985 FPS 100 Power Factor Functioned but barely

 

Palmetto State Armory PCC 16" barrel Blitzkrieg buffer with .308 carbine length spring and a 1" tall flat wound wave spring

3.2 grains 1059/988/988 FPS 104 Power Factor

3.4 grains 1066/1056/1049 FPS 108 Power Factor

3.6 grains 1100/1123/1142 FPS 115 Power Factor

All these loads shot incredibly soft, reliable and will be great for steel challenge

 

147 grain Round Nose Poly coated bullet

mixed range pickup brass

CCI 500 primers

1.125 OAL

M&P 9L Performance with Vortex Venom Red Dot, 5" stock non ported barrel 13# IMSI recoil spring on stock guide rod

3.2 grains 898/897/882 FPS 131 Power Factor This is now my go to load for USPSA

3.4 grains 920/913/905 FPS 134 Power Factor

3.6 grains 958/947/943 FPS 139 Power Factor

 

Sig 226 4.5" barrel stock recoil spring, stock guide rod

3.2 grains 865/866/861 FPS 127 Power Factor

3.4 grains 895/900/893 FPS 131 Power Factor

3.6 grains 937/951/942 FPS 138 Power Factor

 

Palmetto State Armory PCC 16" barrel, Blitzkrieg buffer with a .308 carbine length spring and a 1" tall flat wound wave spring

3.2 grains 1013/1014/976 FPS 147 Power Factor

3.4 grains 1051/1041/1057 FPS 154 Power Factor

3.6 grains 1082/1087/1091 FPS 159 Power Factor

These loads while hotter then the 103's still feel good and shoot well.

 

I plan to further develop the 103 grain bullet loads for the PCC for when I need to make minor power factor.  I hope this info helps someone out. If you have questions, please ask. I am new to this but will do my best to answer.

I spent some more time on the 103 bullets. I loaded them to 4.0 grains and put them through the chrono with my PCC. I ended up at 127 power factor. They were still soft shooting and very accurate. This will now be my load for anything PCC.

On 11/12/2018 at 12:38 AM, csbelew said:

 

 

[blue_dot_glock]

hi all:

 

first time out with a chronograph (after reloading 10k+ with ASP). these are the numbers (admittedly, the best spreads and SDs i had testing 3.5g, 3.7g and 3.9g between the two) :

 

Summers 0.357 RN Hi-Tek 125g
WIN brass, CCI 500, 1.120" OAL

Walther PPS (3.18") - 3.9g ASP

Average: 965.5 FPS
SD: 6.7 FPS
Min: 952 FPS
Max: 972 FPS
Spread: 20 FPS
True MV: 971 FPS
PF Ave: 120.69

G19 (4.02") - 3.7g ASP

Average: 978.3 FPS
SD: 5.7 FPS
Min: 967 FPS
Max: 984 FPS
Spread: 17 FPS
True MV: 984 FPS
PF Ave: 122.29

 

in the future i plan to compete where a PF minor is required and i might as well get used to how they shoot. do i bump up the powder or shorten the OAL to get to a 130-ish PF? or do i just start  reloading 145g?

 

for a general practice round, how do these stack up? should i get closer to 1100 fps or is this fine for everyday practice? i have scads of the 125g on hand and don't want them to go to waste.

 

any insights is appreciated!

Edited March 22, 2019 by blue_dot_glock
correcting OAL

[RAP]

My practice rounds are the same as the rounds I compete with. I see no advantage to use a practice round with a lower PF.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[csbelew]

1 hour ago, blue_dot_glock said:

in the future i plan to compete where a PF minor is required and i might as well get used to how they shoot. do i bump up the powder or shorten the OAL to get to a 130-ish PF? or do i just start  reloading 145g?

 

for a general practice round, how do these stack up? should i get closer to 1100 fps or is this fine for everyday practice? i have scads of the 125g on hand and don't want them to go to waste.

 

any insights is appreciated!

Personally, I would use up what you got of the 125's then your next batch start buying 145's/147's  I think you will like the way they shoot.

[blue_dot_glock]

9 hours ago, csbelew said:

Personally, I would use up what you got of the 125's then your next batch start buying 145's/147's  I think you will like the way they shoot.

this is my plan.

 

i wasn't clear above, but my question about the 125g was if the fps was good for the two barrel lengths or if i should try to bump it up for accuracy, by either increasing the powder or shortening the OAL. is 1000 to 1100 fps a good goal for 125g 9mm? alliant's data for the 124g acme rn-nlg coated (which i'm using as an equivalent to my summers hi-tek 125g) has an oal of 1.05" with 3.9g going 1066 fps (PF 132). for comparison, the win 124g "white box" (Q4318) has a velocity of 1200 fps at the muzzle (PF 149), but the published data doesn't give the barrel length at which this was determined. i've shot these on occasion and i recall they're snappier. 

 

PF isn't a factor for the 125g since i plan to got to 145g in the future, just looking for a safe and accurate 125g round.

[Rnlinebacker]

hi all:
 
first time out with a chronograph (after reloading 10k+ with ASP). these are the numbers (admittedly, the best spreads and SDs i had testing 3.5g, 3.7g and 3.9g between the two) :
 
Summers 0.357 RN Hi-Tek 125g
WIN brass, CCI 500, 1.112" OAL

Walther PPS (3.18") - 3.9g ASP
Average: 965.5 FPS
SD: 6.7 FPS
Min: 952 FPS
Max: 972 FPS
Spread: 20 FPS
True MV: 971 FPS
PF Ave: 120.69

G19 (4.02") - 3.7g ASP
Average: 978.3 FPS
SD: 5.7 FPS
Min: 967 FPS
Max: 984 FPS
Spread: 17 FPS
True MV: 984 FPS
PF Ave: 122.29
 
in the future i plan to compete where a PF minor is required and i might as well get used to how they shoot. do i bump up the powder or shorten the OAL to get to a 130-ish PF? or do i just start  reloading 145g?
 
for a general practice round, how do these stack up? should i get closer to 1100 fps or is this fine for everyday practice? i have scads of the 125g on hand and don't want them to go to waste.
 
any insights is appreciated!

I run my minor ammo at 135-140pf as it snaps sights back really fast similarly to my limited setup. It also helps keep my dot moving in a much more vertical patterning.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[blue_dot_glock]

further sifting through my data from yesterday, i discovered that with the same amount of ASP, but a longer OAL, the velocity was slightly higher. this is counterintuitive to me, but there was one change between the two: for the longer (1.1.45") OAL i was using CBC/S&B brass, the shorter (1.120") OAL i was using WIN brass:

 

G19 - 1.120” (WIN brass): 1018 fps ave

G19 - 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass): 1024 fps ave

 

PPS - 1.120” (WIN brass): 966 fps ave

PPS - 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass): 972 fps ave

 

could this be caused by the CBC/S&B brass being a little thicker, hence more neck tension, causing higher velocities? i've been loading just CBC/S&B brass for a couple years because that's what i had most of, but due to range loss i decided to switch to WIN for working up these new loads. 

 

also, across both pistols with the WIN brass, the velocity dropped by about 30 fps with each 0.2g drop. since i don't have an apples to apples comparison between the two OALs, is it best to drop down to 1.05" per alliant's data and retest with each of the three weights or start upping the powder by 0.2g increments and go past alliant's max load, albeit with a longer OAL? i would like some more velocity out of the PPS, as it didn't always lock the slide back after the last round with my 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass) 3.9g loads, but will with factory loads.

Edited March 22, 2019 by blue_dot_glock
correcting OAL

[blue_dot_glock]

back at home and i checked my notes and i did this batch at 1.120", not 1.112". i started shortening the OAL but the cylindrical part of the bullet (the shoulder, perhaps?) before the ogive started falling below the top of the brass. seems sketchy to me, so i'm going to go back to 1.120 and start upping my powder. i guess when i go to 145g this won't be an issue.

[chenault]

For those that switched from N320, what was the difference in gr of powder from N320 to SP?  I'm at 4.3 gr N320 now, and it looks like I will be similar to that with SP.  Obviously I'll do my own testing, just ballpark. 

[JDubb]

I made some with this powder at 3.5 under a sns 135 bullet at 1.120 oal. 

The second batch was at 1.145 oal 

I will chrono tomorrow these will be for a Glock 34 gen 3 running a vortex viper red dot. 

Thanks for all the good info on this thread I’ll post my results tomorrow 

[JDubb]

Here’s the 1.145 oal load I ran across the chrono

[e-mishka]

Anyone has SP 8lb jugs in stock?

[Flatland Shooter]

38 minutes ago, e-mishka said:

Anyone has SP 8lb jugs in stock?

 

Graf's shows in stock.

 

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/76148ck.

 

 

[ddc]

On 3/21/2019 at 11:20 AM, blue_dot_glock said:

further sifting through my data from yesterday, i discovered that with the same amount of ASP, but a longer OAL, the velocity was slightly higher. this is counterintuitive to me, but there was one change between the two: for the longer (1.1.45") OAL i was using CBC/S&B brass, the shorter (1.120") OAL i was using WIN brass:

 

G19 - 1.120” (WIN brass): 1018 fps ave

G19 - 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass): 1024 fps ave

 

PPS - 1.120” (WIN brass): 966 fps ave

PPS - 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass): 972 fps ave

 

could this be caused by the CBC/S&B brass being a little thicker, hence more neck tension, causing higher velocities? i've been loading just CBC/S&B brass for a couple years because that's what i had most of, but due to range loss i decided to switch to WIN for working up these new loads. 

 

also, across both pistols with the WIN brass, the velocity dropped by about 30 fps with each 0.2g drop. since i don't have an apples to apples comparison between the two OALs, is it best to drop down to 1.05" per alliant's data and retest with each of the three weights or start upping the powder by 0.2g increments and go past alliant's max load, albeit with a longer OAL? i would like some more velocity out of the PPS, as it didn't always lock the slide back after the last round with my 1.145” (CBC/S&B brass) 3.9g loads, but will with factory loads.

 

If I understand what you are saying the OAL changes from 1.120 to 1.145 when you switch from WIN to CBC/S&B brass?

 

I have noticed that OAL increases a bit when using CBC compared to most other brass but I seem to recall the increase being a lot less than 0.025. More like 0.01 max.

 

 

 

 

[blue_dot_glock]

On 3/30/2019 at 8:08 AM, ddc said:

If I understand what you are saying the OAL changes from 1.120 to 1.145 when you switch from WIN to CBC/S&B brass?

 

I have noticed that OAL increases a bit when using CBC compared to most other brass but I seem to recall the increase being a lot less than 0.025. More like 0.01 max.

sorry, i wasn't clear: i changed the OAL to 1.120" when i switched brass.

 

i just started reloading summers 145g and with no change to the seating die, my OAL went from 1.120" to 1.110", still using WIN brass. odd.

[dspring]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:11 PM, JDubb said:

Here’s the 1.145 oal load I ran across the chrono

What app are you using at the range? I write my notes there and then input them on the Mac, but I would save a lot of time if I could input the data at the range.
 

[ODP1911]

That looks like the Caldwell precision app

[blue_dot_glock]

1 hour ago, ODP1911 said:

That looks like the Caldwell precision app

i use the caldwell app too, then transfer the highlights to a spreadsheet:

[JDubb]

Yes it’s the Caldwell app ! 

[dspring]

Thanks all y'all!

[RaylanGivens]

For those of you that are using Sport Pistol instead of n320.

 

Do you find Sport Pistol to actually be better than n320, or is it only the high cost of n320?

 

[fbzero]

19 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

For those of you that are using Sport Pistol instead of n320.

 

Do you find Sport Pistol to actually be better than n320, or is it only the high cost of n320?

 

 

I find it to be better in some ways and worse in some ways, aside from just price.  It meters better, is cheaper, and seems to smoke less to me.  I think that N320 seems to be cleaner, may have a slight edge in accuracy, and also makes less of a mess on my press while loading.  My view is that they are probably relatively equal, but one is half the price...

[Blockader]

6 minutes ago, fbzero said:

 

I find it to be better in some ways and worse in some ways, aside from just price.  It meters better, is cheaper, and seems to smoke less to me.  I think that N320 seems to be cleaner, may have a slight edge in accuracy, and also makes less of a mess on my press while loading.  My view is that they are probably relatively equal, but one is half the price...

 

I agree it is not quite as clean, at least with my light loads, but is good enough. It makes a mess on my press too. Still, cost is a big factor for me so I'm sticking with it.

[RAP]

For those of you that are using Sport Pistol instead of n320.
 
Do you find Sport Pistol to actually be better than n320, or is it only the high cost of n320?
 

I find Sport Pistol to be as accurate as N320. It meters as better than N320. (I load on an RCBS press.) N320 has the edge in cleanliness. I think Sport Pistol smokes less with coated Bullets. I can find it locally where N320 has been hit and miss finding it. And the bonus; it’s half the price.

[IronicTwitch]

Just ran a doubles drill today. 100 rds with WST, then 100rds with Sport Pistol.  The slide was VERY hot after 80 rds of Sport Pistol!  I waited a few minutes to shoot the last 20 rounds, concerned my fiber would fall out.

 

Not a match scenario but it had me rethinking types of practice.