dsatchell Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I'm confused as to why the Heavy Metal division is .45 only. I have heard some people mention that it is actually .45 or larger but that actually seems worse since I see people shooting their .45 that has less recoil than my .40 ! Why not just state that Heavy Metal means that the round you shoot has to be either a certain power factor or must be able to knock over a specific target at a specific distance. I shoot a hot .357sig that has more power than a .45 and my 10mm has way more power, yet I can't shoot either one in Heavy Metal? How does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Welcome to the forums. There is a history there for creation of Heavy Metal - of giving people a place to play who like .45, pump shotguns, and .308 rifles, without being at a capacity disadvantage to other calibers. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, dsatchell said: I'm confused as to why the Heavy Metal division is .45 only. I have heard some people mention that it is actually .45 or larger but that actually seems worse since I see people shooting their .45 that has less recoil than my .40 ! Why not just state that Heavy Metal means that the round you shoot has to be either a certain power factor or must be able to knock over a specific target at a specific distance. I shoot a hot .357sig that has more power than a .45 and my 10mm has way more power, yet I can't shoot either one in Heavy Metal? How does that make sense? you will have to ask Eddie Rhodes. but sadly you cannot. it is what it is. either do or do not. it is not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 HM goes back and has a lot of history, today's 3 gun is a late comer. It didn't start out as Heavy Metal, it started out as He Man. It got changed later to Heavy Metal, for whatever reason. 308 rifle, 45 pistol, 12 pump shotgun. As Wynn says, it is what it is. That is what it is. I like it. RIP Eddie. We still think about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 The same reason Single Stack major only lets you hold 8, IPSC Standard makes you fit in the box, and Production excludes single action: Because Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamspartacus Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 You can always shoot uspsa multigun, they allow .40 in heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Or you can play in one of the 27 3GN divisions that allows "open" .308/7.62 rifles and whatever pistol and/or shotgun you like. If you really want to shoot "Heavy Metal" or "He-Man", it's a .308/7.62 RIFLE, 8-10rd .45 pistol, and 12ga pump shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Few matches do He-Man anymore. Most use tac ops rules with a 308 instead of a 223. All in an effort to "save" the division. IMHO it is all but dead with at least half the matches not making over 10 entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) On 8/3/2017 at 3:21 PM, dsatchell said: I'm confused as to why the Heavy Metal division is .45 only. I have heard some people mention that it is actually .45 or larger but that actually seems worse since I see people shooting their .45 that has less recoil than my .40 ! Why not just state that Heavy Metal means that the round you shoot has to be either a certain power factor or must be able to knock over a specific target at a specific distance. I shoot a hot .357sig that has more power than a .45 and my 10mm has way more power, yet I can't shoot either one in Heavy Metal? How does that make sense? OP, welcome to the forum. This has nothing to do with PF or recoil, or knocking down steel at 50 yds, we can all do that with pu$$y load 9mm. Eddie's favorite line "9mm makes you weak" holds true to this day . It is the mystique of shooting a .45 ACP, big, heavy, finicky sometimes, but we all love it. Come shoot with us at 2018 He Man National in Raton, NM. Much laid back atmosphere and deceptively challenging. Where else can you shoot a rifle stage that will set you back $50 in ammo cost for one stage (that if you don't miss)? Edited August 7, 2017 by PacMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 On 8/6/2017 at 3:27 AM, ziebart said: Few matches do He-Man anymore. Most use tac ops rules with a 308 instead of a 223. All in an effort to "save" the division. IMHO it is all but dead with at least half the matches not making over 10 entries. It's supposed to be hard. He-Man / Heavy Metal is about as close as 3 gun can come to a spec-class where everyone is shooting as close to the same equipment as possible. It's a .308 battle rifle with a 20 round magazine and open sights, its a SINGLE STACK 1911 style 45 with 8 rounds in the mag, and it is an 8 shot max PUMP 12ga, with no reduced recoil loads allowed. Think of it like a Baja race, sure there are trophy trucks and bikes, and ATVS and god knows what, but there is also a class for almost stock VW Beetles with alot of rules and restrictions. Want to run something different? Fine, but you cant run the bug class with a golf or a rabbit, only a bug. Just like single stack in USPSA, the rules are there to limit the shooters to as close to the same equipment as possible. Want to shoot a .40 or a .357 sig? Great, do it in tac-ops. The whole reason for classes in the first place is to put competitors with similar equipment together. Personally I hate all of the "concessions" that some matches put in place (ANY .45, 10 round mags, double stack mags, no restriction on tube capacity on shotgun, allowing red dots on the rifle, etc.) but I understand why they are used. Putting Heavy Metal and Heavy Optics together just because they both have heavy in the name is the worst of all. Heavy Optics is Tac Ops, with a big gun, it's NOT heavy metal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamspartacus Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, barrysuperhawk said: It's supposed to be hard. He-Man / Heavy Metal is about as close as 3 gun can come to a spec-class where everyone is shooting as close to the same equipment as possible. It's a .308 battle rifle with a 20 round magazine and open sights, its a SINGLE STACK 1911 style 45 with 8 rounds in the mag, and it is an 8 shot max PUMP 12ga, with no reduced recoil loads allowed. Think of it like a Baja race, sure there are trophy trucks and bikes, and ATVS and god knows what, but there is also a class for almost stock VW Beetles with alot of rules and restrictions. Want to run something different? Fine, but you cant run the bug class with a golf or a rabbit, only a bug. Just like single stack in USPSA, the rules are there to limit the shooters to as close to the same equipment as possible. Want to shoot a .40 or a .357 sig? Great, do it in tac-ops. The whole reason for classes in the first place is to put competitors with similar equipment together. Personally I hate all of the "concessions" that some matches put in place (ANY .45, 10 round mags, double stack mags, no restriction on tube capacity on shotgun, allowing red dots on the rifle, etc.) but I understand why they are used. Putting Heavy Metal and Heavy Optics together just because they both have heavy in the name is the worst of all. Heavy Optics is Tac Ops, with a big gun, it's NOT heavy metal... Heavy Metal the way you define it is dead. 10 round mags in any .45 and red dots is the only thing giving it continued life. I do like the idea of keeping the shotgun a pump with 8 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Well, I will say there are alot less opportunities for sponsors and accessories in HM... Nordic, RCI, Taran, Salient, Leupold, Vortex, Tooth and Nail, Arredondo, none of them can help a He-Man shooter. The only glimmer of hope is HM does have it's own match: http://heman3gun.webs.com/ and some of us will continue to shoot the class wherever we are allowed, all while listening to the lamentations of the lesser beings that aren't tough enough to play... I remember back when USPSA was only limited and open, and the pansy little glock shooters sneered that they had 17 rounds to my 8... then their mags got banned, so they had to create new classes for the whiners (Limited 10 and eventually Production) so they could still play... Even now, I shoot PCC with a .45 ACP even though I don't get any credit for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 20 hours ago, barrysuperhawk said: It's supposed to be hard. .... Never said it was supposed to be easy. I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't shoot HM in any flavor. Just sharing my observations. One thing I will share is per some match rules there must be at least 5 or 10 competitors in a division before it is recognized. In those cases they will pick whichever HM (tac/limited) has more people and try to get the others to switch. The only other option besides ignoring the rules, or changing them would be to not recognize either division. Like revolver I suspect that the more people change the rules the more it will hurt participation. New shooters are not likely to start in this division so all people are doing is pissing off the folks that have been doing it a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He Man / Heavy Metal is different at a lot of matches. Some combine Magnified and Non Magnified into one division, others do separate them. Some let you shoot a semi-auto shotgun too. The .45 ACP is most likely the closest common denominator in any set of rules for the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Pretty sure a garand in 3006 and a 44 mag is allowed for real men, the panty waist can still use 308s and 45 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Heavy metal should have single shot rifles and SxS shotguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 minute ago, 3gunDQ said: Heavy metal should have single shot rifles and SxS shotguns. Yeah but they have to be blackpowder so you need to clean them mid-stage. Anyone not cleaning during a run is a pussy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 They already have the black powder division it's called "single barrel." If you can shoot a stage without timing out, then you get a trip to the prize table. no one has ever won.... everyone in single barrel loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Dan Sierpina said: He Man / Heavy Metal is different at a lot of matches. Some combine Magnified and Non Magnified into one division, others do separate them. Some let you shoot a semi-auto shotgun too. The .45 ACP is most likely the closest common denominator in any set of rules for the division. LOL, a couple of matches were allowing any USPSA major (limited) pistol, only downloaded to 10 rounds... I have shot matches where ANY 30 cal (including x39 or carbine) was allowed... Actually, I don't think I have ever shot 2 three gun matches in a row that used precisely the same rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 God does not want you to shoot a .357 Sig or .40 S&W or worse downloaded 10mms in He Man. That's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 It's 45 only because it's doing it right, doing what Single Stack SHOULD BE. The way Jesus, John Wayne and JMB would have wanted it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/13/2017 at 5:30 PM, kellyn said: God does not want you to shoot a .357 Sig or .40 S&W or worse downloaded 10mms in He Man. That's why. I was involved in the initial adoption of Heavy Metal at Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun and I can attest to the veracity of kellyn's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 PM, 3gunDQ said: Heavy metal should have single shot rifles and SxS shotguns. I thought that was Cowboy Action... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Langenator said: I thought that was Cowboy Action... lever guns and single actions bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDeVille Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'm going through a similar rule dilemma, Except I WANT to shoot my .45 Commander, I WANT to shoot my 4+1 Ithaca 37... I don't want to shoot a f*#king 30 cal rifle.... I just don't like them, unless it's belt fed.... And some dumbass is carrying ammo for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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