PCC 9mm Muzzle Brake that works?

[Orbit]

17 minutes ago, gerritm said:

Here is her PCC. Taccom 3-stage buffer with stock springs. I will have to take pictures of mine, but I run the same buffer.

 

gerritm

Wow

[JsK]

6 hours ago, Orbit said:

 

Hello,

 

I have the PWS PCC 9.5 9mm rifle. Previously, it has a 6.2oz buffer on it with the original buffer spring. The muzzle brake/compensator was its original mitigatory one.

 

Now, I installed the blitzkrieg Hydraulic Buffer - High Damped (HD) and AR-10 (308) Buffer Spring. The compensator is now the original one after the failure of the recent purchase of Lantac Dragon. I also put 4 quarters at the back of the buffer/spring for short stroke (after putting this, it eliminated the round that is going/pointing up that prevents the round from going into the barrel)

 

Test results yesterday after zeroing my 2 red dots in 25 yards:

1. All 147, 124 & 115grains projectiles are accurate and efficient, no FTF, no FTE, all firing

2. Tested double taps in 10 yards (range rules) ; all second shots were 8-12 inches apart to lower left, except for 147g 3.4gTG 1.120"AOL with 145pf (1 inch apart still lower left)

3. Still have recoil and lots of movement on my red dots (but within the target, unlike before the movement is way out of the target)

 

My barrel have no ramp but I put a bit thru Dremel and from that day onwards, all FTF is eliminated.

 

Plan: I will try your load and If I have extra money this coming days I will buy the 3 stage buffer that you have.

 

Would you mind posting the pic of your whole PCC rifle? Type/model of your buffer and kind of spring for best reference?

 

Every pcc has some dot movement even well tuned ones. Your particular gun being short and light in the muzzle is going to have more dot movement than a heavier gun all things being equal. There are 2 basic theories on buffers, 

1. Heavy mass systems

2 light mass systems

 

The heavy systems have less felt recoil with about the same dot movement but it takes a fraction of a second longer for the dot to return.

 

Light systems have more felt recoil but the dot returns quicker.

 

Since you already have the blitz system I would run that.  Blitz buffer, buffer weight, 308 rifle spring and about 3/8 of short stroking with around 130pf ammo. After that it's more stance and grip then chasing comps.

[RaylanGivens]

21 hours ago, JsK said:

Since you already have the blitz system I would run that.  Blitz buffer, buffer weight, 308 rifle spring and about 3/8 of short stroking with around 130pf ammo. After that it's more stance and grip then chasing comps.

 

Do you run the Blitz stainless steel buffer weight and an additional 3/8 of an inch additional buffer spacers to short stroke your PCC?  Do you have any trouble with trigger reset?

 

[JsK]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:30 AM, RaylanGivens said:

 

Do you run the Blitz stainless steel buffer weight and an additional 3/8 of an inch additional buffer spacers to short stroke your PCC?  Do you have any trouble with trigger reset?

 

 

Yes, both mine and my wife's are setup that way. I tried the A5 tube blitz recommended but I wouldn't go that route unless you absolutely needed a LBHO.

Both guns will run with less stroke with 150pf ammo( factory 115gr) than my normal 130pf ammo but both will reset there triggers just fine.

I personally don't run the hyperfire shoe as it drags on my finger pad and causes reset issues.

One thing I did notice is that when i thought i was getting trigger freeze it was just a timing issue, taking more stroke out not less fixed it for me so don't be afraid

to try less stroke if your trigger reset gets weird.

[mikey_golds]

http://walkerdr.com/nero9 check out there instagram looks very promising 

[Bifurcate]

3 hours ago, mikey_golds said:

http://walkerdr.com/nero9 check out there instagram looks very promising 

 

LOL $180

 

My 8" 9mm doesn't have enough gas to engage a brake. Good luck on a 16" gun!

[mikey_golds]

 
LOL $180
 
My 8" 9mm doesn't have enough gas to engage a brake. Good luck on a 16" gun!

I mean I just watched the videos on their instratram looked decent? Not really sure what else to do if you can’t test it yourself


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[rpm8300]

Just another opinion - I've put quite a few rounds out of an MPX G2 with OEM bird cage - useless, as well as the MPX G3 which has a 'comp' but is also relatively useless.  I also have shot an MBX 14.5" with wielded MBX comp to make 16" - standard barrel, not the super light weight one.  The MBX comp is definitely providing some counter force for the barrel.  That being said the amount that the MBX comp 'works' is largely due to loads.  Both the MPX and custom AR9 I built were plenty soft but only the AR9 would reliably shoot any minor PF load I threw at it.  Literally, it would shoot subminor steel challenge loads - think 147 plated bullets going 800 fps - in this application, Accurate 2 and N320 were best to get some gas gong.

If you run a heavier bullet with faster powder, i.e. 147s with Titegroup at PF, there's only so much gas left over at the end of that barrel to push gas out the ports.  I could grab 124 factory and shoot it out of the AR9 and the dot return was definitely faster - although the gun is hitting your shoulder way harder.  The best balance for me was a 147 plated with medium powder, like Acc #2 or N320 - I tried it with WAC and it wasn't worth all of the extra powder.  That load had a very good balance of dot return and recoil.

Also of note, given the same load, the MPX is softer but the AR9 will have a faster dot return.  I found this the same with both the Blitzkrieg and MBX recoil systems in the AR9.

[impact]

My approach is, just get a comp that ports gas only in one direction (like the MBX or Armanov) to push the barrel radially and index that to whichever direction the dot is escaping on you to counteract that to the highest possible degree. Or index it so that all of the horizontal part of the movement gets dialed out. Might be possible depending on the setup and shooting technique.

There's enough gas left, to actually make use of it, if you "focus" it to help with dot movement, but in conventional brake designs gas and effect just seems to get lost because it gets bled out in all directions and I'm not aware of any 9mm brake design that actually really helps with axial recoil reduction other than by adding weight.

 

 

[mrd]

27 minutes ago, impact said:

My approach is, just get a comp that ports gas only in one direction (like the MBX or Armanov) to push the barrel radially and index that to whichever direction the dot is escaping on you to counteract that to the highest possible degree. Or index it so that all of the horizontal part of the movement gets dialed out. Might be possible depending on the setup and shooting technique.

There's enough gas left, to actually make use of it, if you "focus" it to help with dot movement, but in conventional brake designs gas and effect just seems to get lost because it gets bled out in all directions and I'm not aware of any 9mm brake design that actually really helps with axial recoil reduction other than by adding weight.

 

 

This.  

 

I'm using the Taccom ULW. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by mrd

[Orbit]

4 hours ago, rpm8300 said:

Just another opinion - I've put quite a few rounds out of an MPX G2 with OEM bird cage - useless, as well as the MPX G3 which has a 'comp' but is also relatively useless.  I also have shot an MBX 14.5" with wielded MBX comp to make 16" - standard barrel, not the super light weight one.  The MBX comp is definitely providing some counter force for the barrel.  That being said the amount that the MBX comp 'works' is largely due to loads.  Both the MPX and custom AR9 I built were plenty soft but only the AR9 would reliably shoot any minor PF load I threw at it.  Literally, it would shoot subminor steel challenge loads - think 147 plated bullets going 800 fps - in this application, Accurate 2 and N320 were best to get some gas gong.

If you run a heavier bullet with faster powder, i.e. 147s with Titegroup at PF, there's only so much gas left over at the end of that barrel to push gas out the ports.  I could grab 124 factory and shoot it out of the AR9 and the dot return was definitely faster - although the gun is hitting your shoulder way harder.  The best balance for me was a 147 plated with medium powder, like Acc #2 or N320 - I tried it with WAC and it wasn't worth all of the extra powder.  That load had a very good balance of dot return and recoil.

Also of note, given the same load, the MPX is softer but the AR9 will have a faster dot return.  I found this the same with both the Blitzkrieg and MBX recoil systems in the AR9.

 

Hello rpm8300,

 

Yes, still looking for the great and useful comp for my PWS. I took off the Lantac Dragon 9mm comp due to its muzzle thread (not straight), and by having this forum, I learned that muzzle brake is almost useless so I put back the PWS Recoil Mitigator.

 

Running the set-up yesterday, you are right; I tested the 124g 9mm Blazer and it was easy to control and put back the dot to its intended target. Not to mention that the PF of that is 148 thru my 9.5" barrel.

 

I am happy with the set=-up now and able to have a better confidence for this Saturday PCC. Will not stop until I get what I am wanting.

[rpm8300]

Hey man, yeah, totally get it.  After shooting a lot of PCC this year with both the MPX and the AR platform, I'll say the biggest factor for any and all PCC shooting is reliability - MPX is all about the gas system, as well as constantly changing out extractor spring/insert.  AR9 its really mags and extractor; if you have an external extractor like on the Faxon G2 BCG, its much easier in my opinion.

 

If I was running your type of setup I would run 125 Blues (for cost savings) or a 124 plated at 1075 fps with a medium powder like Acc #2 or N320.  At more and its diminishing returns for comp efficiency.  Try different springs for your buffer regardless of what system you use - you'll be surprised what you can get away with and what 'feels' best for you. 

 

[MacLethal]

I have been running the Lantac Dragon for a few years on my 9mm and it does what I need it to. That gun doesn’t bounce around and I can shoot alphas close together pretty quickly so any further testing wasn’t done on my end. If Shooting innovations made the thread for my barrel ( 1/2x36) I would have put one of those on it to try.


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[Orbit]

1 hour ago, rpm8300 said:

Hey man, yeah, totally get it.  After shooting a lot of PCC this year with both the MPX and the AR platform, I'll say the biggest factor for any and all PCC shooting is reliability - MPX is all about the gas system, as well as constantly changing out extractor spring/insert.  AR9 its really mags and extractor; if you have an external extractor like on the Faxon G2 BCG, its much easier in my opinion.

 

If I was running your type of setup I would run 125 Blues (for cost savings) or a 124 plated at 1075 fps with a medium powder like Acc #2 or N320.  At more and its diminishing returns for comp efficiency.  Try different springs for your buffer regardless of what system you use - you'll be surprised what you can get away with and what 'feels' best for you. 

 

Yes, right now I am using the AR10 carbine buffer spring. This Thursday, I will try to use the original buffer spring of PWS and the AR15 buffer spring in partner to my Blitzkreig Hydraulic HD buffer.

[Orbit]

24 minutes ago, MacLethal said:

I have been running the Lantac Dragon for a few years on my 9mm and it does what I need it to. That gun doesn’t bounce around and I can shoot alphas close together pretty quickly so any further testing wasn’t done on my end. If Shooting innovations made the thread for my barrel ( 1/2x36) I would have put one of those on it to try.


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Looking forward to get one from our local gunstores in here. I am just waiting for the Lantac USA response about the batch that affetcs the wrong threading of the unit. It was a bit bent/lean to the right causing the ammo to touch the inner wall.

 

What is the length of your barrel and PCC set-up if you don't mind?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Orbit

[cecil]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:45 AM, mrd said:

This.  

 

I'm using the Taccom ULW. 

 

2nd for Taccom LW

 

[stick]

Ditto on the Taccom ULW

[Polaris13]

I did a back to back to back comparison Lantac Dragon, JP, and Venom.  Venom reduced the recoil the best.  It was on a home built, with JP internals.

[MacLethal]

 
Looking forward to get one from our local gunstores in here. I am just waiting for the Lantac USA response about the batch that affetcs the wrong threading of the unit. It was a bit bent/lean to the right causing the ammo to touch the inner wall.
 
What is the length of your barrel and PCC set-up if you don't mind?

Barrel I’m using is a Ballistic Advantage 16”
Upper is a Rainier Arms without the forward assist.
Lower is a Spartan arms
Timney Trigger
CMMG BCG
I can’t remember what buffer system is in it to be honest, I’ll have to look at it again but it’s nothing special. I’m running 134 PF ammo through it.


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[Les Snyder]

followup to my Sept 5 post... I opened all three cuts an equal amount at the top of the Miculek, leaving only a .175" bridge between the radius on each side... clocked at 3 o'clock, the dot does not move with double taps on a 25yd plate

 

 CMMG radial delayed bolt and barrel

Enidine hydraulic rifle buffer in A1 stock

modified Miculek comp (if interested please read my Sept 5 post)

load is Bayou 135 with Super Field.... 146 pf

[bigdawgbeav]

How about the Tandemkross GameChanger Pro?

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[MoRivera]

Thing is, even watching video of my own shooting with an MBX comp on my PCC, you definitely see some muzzle smoke coming out the top.  But it's not like the strong (and LOUD) jet exhaust like on a comped open pistol shooting major or an AR's muzzle brake.  

 

 

So I can't really imagine any PCC comp having much effect except when using really strong loads...which by then is creating more recoil and muzzle flip anyway.  Maybe that last little bit on a rather painstakingly balanced system, or something. 

 

Personally, I've gravitated more to a lighter buffer system that cycles faster, even though there's more if a jolt on recoil.  That way it bounces back before moving the muzzle/dot as much.  With a heavier buffer and/or lighter load, it's like the whole gun sways up more as the buffer 'lingers' during the back stroke of the cycle....and that floats the dot up more, even though the impact is softer on the shoulder.

Edited October 4, 2019 by MoRivera

[impact]

It works. But its magnitude fore sure depends on the load, rifle setup and comp. Get to an indoor range and use a laser, and capture the difference in movememt there, if you're unable to tell during shooting. Or shoot the carbin one handed from the hip without any other part of the body touching the gun. Without any muzzle device it should raise straigt up. With muzzle device attached it will dampen that movement. And if you index the comp to 1 to 3 o'clock, you will sure get the muzzle thrown up to the left.

Of course it likely won't be a gamechanger. But it's a piece of the puzzle. And many small things done right will add up. Of course training with the carbine and getting it to know will improve your ability to control it the most.

 

And yes, comps on open pistols will work better because theres twice or three times more powder in the case and probably ten times the pressure level at the muzzle... but you also got less mechanical leverage working for you on these comparably shorter barrels.