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Chrishoward1364

Glock 19 Open.

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Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum, and this is my first post on the site, so I apologize if I inadvertently break any policies/incorrectly label something. 

 

I come from the other end of the shooting community, and found my way into Uspsa recently. After doing decently in a few local matches, buying a 2011, realizing I currently prefer my glocks (heresy I know) and getting a lay of the land, I am thinking about dipping a toe into the abyss of open division, with a more familiar platform.

 

I'm looking into setting up a comped Glock 19 with a slide mounted red dot, and running it as a complement to the existing Glock lineup I use in limited.

 

Just curious if anyone here has any direct experience doing such a thing, has any open division specific advice for it, or brand recommendations for the comp from first hand experience. Currently it looks like the KKM is in the lead with me.

 

As an aside, I am aware most here prefer the 2011, CZ, or Tanfo routes, and while I can appreciate all of those platforms, I am specifically looking to go this route currently.

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This is my opinion and/or experience. I shoot 2011 open guns for fun and competition but I wear glocks for life's daily adventures.

 

in my opinion 2011's are better suited for the game whereas glocks are better suited for wearing.

 

I am in a similar boat as you, I'd prefer the feel and grip angle that ultimately gives me a better grip on a glock than I get on a 2011.  The reason I don't try to force a glock/open division marriage is that I think open division punches glocks well past their comfort zone of design vs the requirements that an open gun dictates.  In my opinion, Gaston would not have designed the glock the way he did if he wanted to compete in USPSA open division.

 

on the other hand the 1911 was designed to handle 230 gr ball ammo which in turn is major power factor and though the pressures and velocities are totally different in 9mm the design and mass of the gun don't know the difference.

 

I too started uspsa and then open wanting to make a glock work. It certainly can be done but it's gonna take its toll on a glock much quicker than a 2011.

 

if I was to do it now, I'd definitely start with a .40 as opposed to a 9mm just so I wasn't trying to push it so hard.

 

personally I think the issue is the frame design on a glock provides significant advantages in reliability as compared to a 2011 but it come at the cost of strength from constant abuse of an open gun takes.

 

sticking a comp way out on the barrel adds a significant moment force to the barrel, slide, and frame . Mounting an optic on the frame is also challenging to the design.

 

I'm not trying to stop you, it's just an uphill fight with a glock and I think you'll perform better in CO without having to deal with a company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For playing around just having fun, sure glock will most of the time go boom. 

 

if you wanna compete, they dont. 

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Not sure a 19 is right for open. Kind of short. I ran a Bobby Carver built Glock 17 in open and 3-gun for several years. He is the go to guy for parts and advice. Gun ran 99%. Loved it. Went to an STI open and now back to a Glock & PCC.

 

Ran right on the edge of 165 PF with HS-6 and 124gr JHP. Also ran a lighter load/recoil spring for steel and 3-gun. Now for the bad news. It is hard on Glocks for major open. Really had to check all screws/pins etc. after shooting major for backing out & loosening. No problem for minor. Just ran the loads on the hotter side for enough gas to work the comp. If you are going to be super serious competitor for open USPSA then Glock is not the way to go. It will beat the gun up. If you are dabbling in major, minor, and shooting steel and 3-gun it is a great choice.

 

http://www.bb-enterprise.biz/

 

gerritm

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G19 isn't going to be that great in open. I have shot my G19C in open before just because its my carry gun and I forgot a normal barrel that day.  Could you obtain velocities to get to major in a 4in barrel? As everyone here knows, I think Major 9 is a bad idea, but thats a different issue. 

I have seen some 34s in open that are comp'd and everything. My experience is that the gun beats up your arms and elbows. Nothing like a 124gr pill at 1400 fps in a plastic gun. Also, just purely statistically...I havent seen any G34s winning Open since KC was shooting one. But I also dont hang around the open guys to much. 

 

Edit re-read the original post:
Sounds like your going to do it with your 19 either way...so...

G19 with a storm lake threaded barrel and the 'Double Diamond' compensator. Slap that UTM tactical mount and a micro dot like the C-more on it and then I'd nab G17 mags and the Taran Extensions with Taran followers and springs.

Edited by Dutchman195

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If I were you and I wanted to shoot a slide mounted optic on a glock, I would strongly consider shooting carry optics. The ammo is what the gun is designed for and you aren't trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. 

Edited by MHitchcock

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KC Eusebio is better than everyone who just posted on this topic and has won multiple matches with a Glock open gun.

 

I have shot all breeds of open guns.  As long as it has a good comp, load, and thumb rest, it will be just as competitive as 95% of the competition.  Add porting for that other 5%.  

 

No question, SJC for the comp and most of the parts.  KKM is a great choice for the barrel.  With a fully supported, quality KKM barrel, the wear on the platform will be no different than a .40 Glock at similar power factory.

 

You may as well put on the 9 major comp SJC makes, that's what Eusebio used.

 

The Vortex Venom red dot is the best slide mounted red dot Ive ever used.  The Fastfire, Doctor, and even Trijicon I used all broke in fairly short order and the Venom has a great viewing window.

 

The Glock will NOT hold you back at all.

 

If you could put an open Glock in the top shooter's hands, he would still be a top shooter.

 

 

Here's a pic of KC's preferred setup before he got bought by ZEV.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=glock+open+kc+eusebio+sjc+major&client=ms-android-google&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjkePNzafVAhXmwlQKHU2LAHsQ_AUICSgB&biw=412&bih=604&dpr=2.63#imgdii=pw10uUHumMQLnM:&imgrc=V-0xqF3bTwN1nM:

Edited by Whoops!

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Thanks Whoops!, i wasn't aware of the SJC options out there, I will definitely look into that. Most of my experience with slide mounted red dots has been with the RMR line, but my viper that I have mounted at a 45 on one of my DMRs does well, so ill definitely look into the venom.

 

My observations and testing has shown negligible difference in platform performance,  as you said, a top shooter is a top shooter. Robert Vogel, KC, and Shane Coley all seem to do well with Glock, just as many others do well with 2011s, CZs, and Tanfos. 

 

Perhaps after more hands on time with a CZ, or Tanfo I'll head that route, for now I appreciate the advice on this project.

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I shot a G19 Open gun once, it was pretty fun! short, light and fast, albeit a little violent at major PF.

 

The sheer availability of drop in parts makes Glock an attractive option for a first foray into Open, although having owned many STI, CZ and Tanfo Open guns, the one I shoot the most is my custom TS-based CZ.

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A buddy who is a glockophile has an SJC  built full house open glock with a standard upright cmore in 9mm major. With appropriate major ammo it is flat, fast  and accurate.  I don't like the sharp/harsh character of the recoil (gun isn't heavy enough for my taste)  but with some practice it wouldn't hurt my scores any.  But to be clear that SJC gun is as much a custom gun in most ways as my caspians/2011s are.  that's not the same as randomly bolting parts to a glock diy.

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@Whoops!

 

So what you are telling me is there is one guy, who is also arguably the best in the world, that ran a glock in open and now he doesn't? Yeah, I know... knock yourself out dude. Get the g19 tuned up and race ready. Go out, play, have fun, all the sport is is fun.

 

Glocks are great guns, they are just not great open division guns.

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2 hours ago, 3gunDQ said:

@Whoops!

 

So what you are telling me is there is one guy, who is also arguably the best in the world, that ran a glock in open and now he doesn't? Yeah, I know... knock yourself out dude. Get the g19 tuned up and race ready. Go out, play, have fun, all the sport is is fun.

 

Glocks are great guns, they are just not great open division guns.

 

He also carried 3-4 of them to every match in hopes  of making it through.  When Glock themselves with the help of SJC couldn't keep them running...  
Good luck.   

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Do I need to name the pro shooters who have forfeited matches because their Akai Custom Guns stopped working?  

 

Many, dare I say MOST pro shooters have identically setup backup guns and even those sometimes fail, with the majority of them in open division in this sport being 2011s.  Back when I talked to KC while he was still on Team Glock, he had no problems supporting Glock.  His performance also had no problem supporting Glock and SJC.  He doesn't run Glock anymore because he is no longer on Team Glock.  

 

What I'm telling you, 3gundq, is that one of the best pro shooters in the world was STILL one of the best while shooting a Glock in open.  Even though I don't shoot Glocks regularly, I have never had a problem with them when I did, including while setup for open (in fact, it ran way better out of the box then any factory 2011 you can buy today; all of them require at least ejector and mag tuning).  Hell, I fed an M&P a steady diet of 180+ pf HS6 loads and never had a problem with a Stormlake barrel.  I have had much better experience with the Glock platform than the M&P platform.

 

For sure, a properly setup Glock open gun is not a handicap.  

 

That being said, the one platform I will never recommend to anyone but a pro shooter with factory support is the Gold Custom Tanfoglio.  It's the only expensive gun I've ever had that chews up its barrel like it's pot metal.  If you talk to Grauffel on a good day, he might tell you that he needs a new barrel something like every 2 to 3 thousand rounds.  Some people claim it's a timing issue.  I've seen Gold Customs where all 3 lugs seem to be peening evenly.  IMHO, it's a metallurgy issue.

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G34's I've  been running them for 4 years now, about 75 matches . avg 173 PF ,  they hold up just fine . you  can do all the work on them your self,  inexpensive and shooting open is a blast..  John from SJC is a great guy to deal with. I know a couple of guy's that made master with open Glocks . Being old and retired  I get great satisfaction  that my gun's run great and I'm having fun

500 pickzells   (3).JPG

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@Shadyscott999 LOL

 

@Whoops! yeah dude, I get it. There was one shooter running a glock and he was still arguably the best in the world. Could the OP run his glock and it run like a sewing machine? Yes. Could he never get it to actually run reliably? Uh, yeah there too. 

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Here is my Glock 17 built by Bobby Carver. This gun ran like a top. Only issues ever were with my reloads. Ran it right at 165PF for 2 years and a lot of rounds in USPSA & 3-gun. Wish I still had it. Only thing I did was keep and eye on the bolt/pin that held the trigger and rear dot mount as it would loosen up. Put steel pins in and once in awhile they would back out slightly. Rest of the gun was rock solid and I probably shot it better with that than my STI, due to it's reliability. I am no where near  KC type shooter, but it was fun.

 

gerritm

glockopen.jpg

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21 hours ago, Whoops! said:

Do I need to name the pro shooters who have forfeited matches because their Akai Custom Guns stopped working?  

 

Many, dare I say MOST pro shooters have identically setup backup guns and even those sometimes fail, with the majority of them in open division in this sport being 2011s.  Back when I talked to KC while he was still on Team Glock, he had no problems supporting Glock.  His performance also had no problem supporting Glock and SJC.  He doesn't run Glock anymore because he is no longer on Team Glock.  

 

What I'm telling you, 3gundq, is that one of the best pro shooters in the world was STILL one of the best while shooting a Glock in open.  Even though I don't shoot Glocks regularly, I have never had a problem with them when I did, including while setup for open (in fact, it ran way better out of the box then any factory 2011 you can buy today; all of them require at least ejector and mag tuning).  Hell, I fed an M&P a steady diet of 180+ pf HS6 loads and never had a problem with a Stormlake barrel.  I have had much better experience with the Glock platform than the M&P platform.

 

For sure, a properly setup Glock open gun is not a handicap.  

 

That being said, the one platform I will never recommend to anyone but a pro shooter with factory support is the Gold Custom Tanfoglio.  It's the only expensive gun I've ever had that chews up its barrel like it's pot metal.  If you talk to Grauffel on a good day, he might tell you that he needs a new barrel something like every 2 to 3 thousand rounds.  Some people claim it's a timing issue.  I've seen Gold Customs where all 3 lugs seem to be peening evenly.  IMHO, it's a metallurgy issue.

 

 

Like I said, he carried 3-4 to every match and more than once he left early because he ran out of guns.  
I was there.
All guns break.  That is why we carry backups if we are serious about the game.  
But when you need a backup to your backups backup, you might want to reconsider.
(FYI, I have a Carver Glock 34 in the safe.  Never made it through a club match without a problem) 

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I put together a G17 open gun. It ran totally fine. Hell, once I got it figured out it had fewer issues than my first 2011. It was flat, accurate, made PF with not much powder (my lonewolf was fast, 8.4 of HS6 with a 115 coated got me about 171), you can work on it yourself...

But it had it's own issues. It was violent, it had a crap trigger in comparison to any S.A. gun out there, it would only reliably run with major ammo (even with an 11# recoil spring), took a lot more maintenance, and I was very worried about the longevity of the frame and slide.

My thoughts would be a 19 would be like a 17, only worse.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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I shoot a G17 in open and run it minor PF. Yes I know I am giving up points by shooting minor, but it forces me to be more accurate. I have had a few issues out of it, but it runs 99% + every day now. I will continue to shoot it until 1 of 2 things happen. 1. I get to a point in my shooting ability where the gun not the shooter is keeping me from winning. Or 2. A smoking deal on a 2011 platform crosses my path

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On 7/26/2017 at 3:32 AM, drewbeck said:

This is my opinion and/or experience. I shoot 2011 open guns for fun and competition but I wear glocks for life's daily adventures.

 

in my opinion 2011's are better suited for the game whereas glocks are better suited for wearing.

 

I am in a similar boat as you, I'd prefer the feel and grip angle that ultimately gives me a better grip on a glock than I get on a 2011.  The reason I don't try to force a glock/open division marriage is that I think open division punches glocks well past their comfort zone of design vs the requirements that an open gun dictates.  In my opinion, Gaston would not have designed the glock the way he did if he wanted to compete in USPSA open division.

 

on the other hand the 1911 was designed to handle 230 gr ball ammo which in turn is major power factor and though the pressures and velocities are totally different in 9mm the design and mass of the gun don't know the difference.

 

I too started uspsa and then open wanting to make a glock work. It certainly can be done but it's gonna take its toll on a glock much quicker than a 2011.

 

if I was to do it now, I'd definitely start with a .40 as opposed to a 9mm just so I wasn't trying to push it so hard.

 

personally I think the issue is the frame design on a glock provides significant advantages in reliability as compared to a 2011 but it come at the cost of strength from constant abuse of an open gun takes.

 

sticking a comp way out on the barrel adds a significant moment force to the barrel, slide, and frame . Mounting an optic on the frame is also challenging to the design.

 

I'm not trying to stop you, it's just an uphill fight with a glock and I think you'll perform better in CO without having to deal with a company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

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On 26/07/2017 at 2:16 PM, MHitchcock said:

If I were you and I wanted to shoot a slide mounted optic on a glock, I would strongly consider shooting carry optics. The ammo is what the gun is designed for and you aren't trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. 

Excellent advice

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This does remind me of something . . . due to an inability to tune Glock mags, you will likely need to run at least a 10 or 11 pound recoil spring.  That will not hurt your score though, it's about the same weight Grauffel used to run in his Tanfoglio open gun.  

 

With this in mind, it is still MUCH easier to get a Glock open gun to run than to get a 2011 open gun to run.

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