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e-mishka

Are pistols with braces legal for PCC?

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Could always use it as an excuse to SBR the gun. Current form 1 e file times are under a month and real easy to do. Shoot me a message if you want to go that way and have any questions. 

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Ok,

    Until I pull the trigger on a pcc, or need advice on the purchase, I wont pester you with any more questions after this one.   

    Is there a competition class for me and my braced MPX?  It's just so much fun, and the long barreled PCCs just dont compare for me.  I've shot a few.   

     Dont want to get a tax stamp.  The thought offends me for some reason.  

Thanks,

Pete

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25 minutes ago, Az595 said:

Ok,

    Until I pull the trigger on a pcc, or need advice on the purchase, I wont pester you with any more questions after this one.   

    Is there a competition class for me and my braced MPX?  It's just so much fun, and the long barreled PCCs just dont compare for me.  I've shot a few.   

     Dont want to get a tax stamp.  The thought offends me for some reason.  

Thanks,

Pete

In USPSA? No, period. 

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Not asking about any illegal matches.   Asking if there are any classes that allow braced pistols.  

Is this site USPSA only?  Looking for someplace to legally shoot a fun firearm with like minded people.  

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3 minutes ago, Az595 said:

Not asking about any illegal matches.   Asking if there are any classes that allow braced pistols.  

Is this site USPSA only?  Looking for someplace to legally shoot a fun firearm with like minded people.  

Depends on your location and specific ranges. Nothing in USPSA, some level 1 matches will look the other way.
Find an outlaw pistol or 2 gun match, is the easiest.

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1 hour ago, Az595 said:

Not asking about any illegal matches.   Asking if there are any classes that allow braced pistols.  

Is this site USPSA only?  Looking for someplace to legally shoot a fun firearm with like minded people.  

Take it to a range and shoot it with your buddies? No this is not a USPSA only site. But it is primarily a competition site, not a plinking site. There are not any competition instructors who will waste their time on it. You should be able to find a tactical Timmy instructor who will gladly take your money though.

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On 12/21/2019 at 6:35 PM, Sarge said:

In USPSA? No, period. 

Why not Open? (Also AZ595, it's a Division in most circles, not a Class but we get what you were saying - well, most of us)

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On 12/21/2019 at 8:09 AM, Az595 said:

Ok,

    Until I pull the trigger on a pcc, or need advice on the purchase, I wont pester you with any more questions after this one.   

    Is there a competition class for me and my braced MPX?  It's just so much fun, and the long barreled PCCs just dont compare for me.  I've shot a few.   

     Dont want to get a tax stamp.  The thought offends me for some reason.  

Thanks,

Pete

 

The form 1 process is painless and fast.  Submit all your info online and then mail fingerprint cards.  2-3 weeks later your approved.

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On 12/22/2019 at 11:46 PM, gng4life said:

Why not Open?

You’d have to shoot it from a holster that covers the trigger, and use 170mm magazines. Could still run afoul of 5.1.10.

 

Edit: and weak hand only stages would be tough!

Edited by Norther

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On 12/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, Tom Freeman said:

 

The form 1 process is painless and fast.  Submit all your info online and then mail fingerprint cards.  2-3 weeks later your approved.

The engraving requirement is annoying also. 

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28 minutes ago, Norther said:

You’d have to shoot it from a holster that covers the trigger, and use 170mm magazines. Could still run afoul of 5.1.10.

 

Edit: and weak hand only stages would be tough!

Ok, got that, but the answer I responded to was an unequivocal "No" so I wanted to pose the possibility of it in Open. And 5.1.10 will not affect it since by the official ATF ruling, it is not a stock. With everyone making their own Kydex holsters, I am sure that won't be a problem either. So again, what about Open? I don't see anything else that would disqualify it. Will you win anything with it? Probably not. However, just a thought...Merry Christmas all.

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6 hours ago, Norther said:

The engraving requirement is annoying also. 

I spent 5 minutes engraving my SBR’d lower with a Dremel. May not look the best but I’d guess that no one at the range has ever even noticed. 

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7 hours ago, Eric802 said:

I spent 5 minutes engraving my SBR’d lower with a Dremel. May not look the best but I’d guess that no one at the range has ever even noticed. 

You engraved all of the required NFA info, to the required depth & size with a Dremel?  Kudos, you must have a very steady hand.  I've never heard of anyone doing that.  Show a picture of your work.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/06/atf-nfa-marking-requirements-get-it-right/

 

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14 hours ago, gng4life said:

So again, what about Open? I don't see anything else that would disqualify it. Will you win anything with it? Probably not. However, just a thought...Merry Christmas all.

Pistols and PCC are defined differently.

 

If you have an AR pistol and it conforms to all pistol rules, you probably can.  Is there a rule that braces cannot be used with pistols or a specific barrel length?  What defines a pistol and what modifications can be done?

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4 hours ago, brian45acp said:

D8 6 is your rule. Answer is no

I think you missed the point here. D8-6 is for PCC division only and states a stock must be attached and Sig braces/variants are NOT allowed here. If you read D1 - Open Division, there is no mention of this. As long as it doesn't have a forward grip or stock (5.1.10) (Sig brace is not a stock IAW ATF ruling), what else would preclude this from being used? Comments?

 

I am in no way trying to stir up anything, merely just discussing the rules we have in place and how they may apply to the OP's question. To the OP, the short answer is No. However, to Open division - we can discuss that. 

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IPSC rules do not mention braces.

Not sure if a US IPSC match would agree to consider a brace a stock, for the purposes of a match.....

 

IPSC PCC Rules:

5.1.10 The firearm must be fitted with a stock enabling it to be fired from the shoulder

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Well that makes sense because braces are a uniquely American loophole item (for the most part) while IPSC is international. 

Edited by SwedishMoose

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19 hours ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

You engraved all of the required NFA info, to the required depth & size with a Dremel?  Kudos, you must have a very steady hand.  I've never heard of anyone doing that.  Show a picture of your work.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/06/atf-nfa-marking-requirements-get-it-right/

 

There is nothing difficult about engraving aluminum with a diamond-tip Dremel bit.  You need to get out more if you've "never heard" of anyone else doing that.  It'll blow your mind to find out that I also did the Form 1 suppressor that I built.  I'm well aware of the legal depth and letter size requirements.  

Edited by Eric802

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10 hours ago, gng4life said:

I think you missed the point here. D8-6 is for PCC division only and states a stock must be attached and Sig braces/variants are NOT allowed here. If you read D1 - Open Division, there is no mention of this. As long as it doesn't have a forward grip or stock (5.1.10) (Sig brace is not a stock IAW ATF ruling), what else would preclude this from being used? Comments?

 

I am in no way trying to stir up anything, merely just discussing the rules we have in place and how they may apply to the OP's question. To the OP, the short answer is No. However, to Open division - we can discuss that. 


 

it’s not open division it’s pcc. 

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12 minutes ago, brian45acp said:


 

it’s not open division it’s pcc. 

I'm confused, what do you mean?

 

D8 is for PCC, D1 is for Open. The question was about shooting this firearm in Open division so D1 is what we are discussing in relation to the rebuttal I posed. We already established that  the rules state you can not use a Sig brace in PCC (D8). So back to my original question, why can't you shoot this pistol we are discussing in Open division?

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4 hours ago, brian45acp said:

Start position would be the first one. You have a holster for it? lol

 

 

 

Well, actually, here's a custom made one for an SBR and the same can be done for Sig braced pistols. Anyway, it's a novel concept but not something I want to try. Fun discussion though. Thanks.

SBR-Holster-Detail.jpg

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