First attempt at 147 Grain minor load, insight appreciated

[Outcrydrummer]

So after doing some reading I have decided I'm going to start loading 147 grain minor loads for shooting.

My father already has both a single stage and progressive reloaders with dies, funnels, etc for realoading.

 

After poking around here I had settled on the bayou bullets 147 grain and titegroup powder. Was going to be using cci spp's.

 

Looking for recommendations on OAL and how much titegroup.

Just looking to make minor power factor out of my M&P Apex 5" barrel.

 

If anyone can recommend better powder or better projectiles etc I'm completely open to suggestions. I haven't bought anything yet and plan to order projectiles tomorrow and pick up the powder and primers locally.

 

Thanks guys!!!

[njl]

3.1-3.3gr will likely do it, but if you're a beginner reloader, I don't recommend either titegroup or coated bullets. Get a less dense powder like Universal or Red Dot / Promo and load a few thousand fmj or jhp bullets before messing with coated lead.

[Beef15]

Look up plunk test, use it to determine OAL.

3.2gr of TG made minor for me with two different coated 147s. Do beware the double charge, not much case fill at all.

Lots of suitable powders. Many advocate slower and/or bulkier powders for starting out, the former is more forgiving, the latter makes it easier to spot discrepancies.

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[muncie21]

The Bayou bullets are just as good as any.  I worked up some Bayou 147gr bullet loads using VV N320, for a CZ. Being made for a CZ the OAL was shorter (1.070-1.090) than other pistols. 

 

Ended up shelving this project as the bullet seating depth was close too close to the powder, which could have created pressure spikes and other 'fun' stuff.  Being that I use mixed brass and don't measure each and every projectile and powder throw, I thought it best to leave this for another day. 

 

I'm sure you'll find hordes of folks with the opposite experience, so choose your own path and let us know how things turn out.

[Outcrydrummer]

Luckily while i am truly a novice my father has been reloading for years so i have his knowledge and experience to lean on. 

 

I always hsve been super cautious with powder. I typically re-weigh powder before i seat the projectile just to verify i didnt double charge. 

[Outcrydrummer]

I probably will stick with a fmj to make life easier on me. Anyone have a good fmj i could use?

[Hi-Power Jack]

Precision Delta.

 

Not sure what you meant by "re-weigh powder" ???    

Better to have a good light, and look into each case BEFORE

you seat the bullet - check the height of the powder visually.     

[Outcrydrummer]

Should have said recheck. Ive only loaded rifle before and i got in the habit of dumping powder into the scale to double check it wasnt double charged and that i got the same amount of powder.....for pistol probably wouldnt matter but i was trying to make extremely consistent rifle loads. 

Thanks for the projectile recommendation

[haiedras]

Rifle makes sense since you can't just visually check inside the case and you get a lot more "ruh-roh" with powder variations. Pistol, I've laddered from 3.0gr all the way up to 3.8gr of TG with 147gr at 1.130 OAL and didn't see anything that overly concerned me. 

I started off loading with moly-coated and TG, then moved to coated. Not sure there's any concern over using coated bullets, just don't crimp the bejesus out of them. TG runs a little hot yes, but it meters particularly well and was accurate enough. I have some Nobel Sport Prima-V and some BA 9.5 that I've been meaning to test as well as a ton of CSB-1(ETR-7) that meters about the same as N320. 

[GlockCanMan]

6 hours ago, njl said:

3.1-3.3gr will likely do it, but if you're a beginner reloader, I don't recommend either titegroup or coated bullets. Get a less dense powder like Universal or Red Dot / Promo and load a few thousand fmj or jhp bullets before messing with coated lead.

 

Why? 

[muncie21]

5 hours ago, haiedras said:

 I have some Nobel Sport Prima-V and some BA 9.5 that I've been meaning to test...

If you like N320, you'll like the Prima V.  It meters well, burns clean and is within a few tenths of a grain (or the same) of N320; all at half the cost

[njl]

4 hours ago, GlockCanMan said:

 

Why? 

 

Jacketed bullets are harder to screw up (can't scrape through the coating seating them, and overcrimping won't tear the jacket).  And Titegroup being so dense is too easy to double charge and blow up a gun.

[diesel855]

Having loaded 147 Ibeji coated FP with 3.2 of TG at 1.140 oal functioned well but I did not like the pulse, also as mentioned the dense powder is easy to double charge case . Powders that fill the case volume more might be a better choice getting started  3.9-4.0 of Power Pistol or 3.3-3.4 WST both work well with 147 coated bullets. Personal preference plays a big part in reloading. Jacketed bullets are more forgiving to work with, and probably a good place to start, have fun..

 

[IDescribe]

14 hours ago, Outcrydrummer said:

Just looking to make minor power factor...

 

You should be looking for an accurate load that also makes minor power factor with a cushion.

Minor PF floor is 125.  You should load to a cushion above that for two reasons:  the first, so that unavoidable variation in your loads doesn't drop you below 125PF if you get chronoed, and the second, to help you knock over steel targets, which are calibrated to fall over with good square hits at a PF of 125, and not all of your hits will be good and square.  Some people DO try to cut it to 127/128, but I think you'll find most people will have a minimum of 130-133.

The second thing is that you want an accurate load.  It's fairly common for people to run a new load up to their personal minimum of PF13X and say "Got it."  Like that's the logical end of load development.  Meanwhile, an extra tenth of a grain or two of powder or some OAL tinkering would have yielded a more accurate load.   The natural variation from one bullet to the next when you're loading is going to yield PF swings of 2-5 (and some people higher) anyway, and you will NEVER notice the difference yourself while shooting, so don't feel like some arbitrary average PF is right, and one or two PF higher is too high, that recoil will be too high.  It's not going to play out that way.  Find your most accurate load in a PF range of 131 - 136, and use it.     

[IDescribe]

13 hours ago, Outcrydrummer said:

I probably will stick with a fmj to make life easier on me. Anyone have a good fmj i could use?

 

As Hi Power Jack said, Precision Delta.  They have a 147 RN and a 147 TC.  Both would be great.   There is a significant price savings for buying 2,000 or more -- $124 for 1,000, or $104/1000 if you buy 2,000 or more.  Shipping is free.  That's a great price on a great bullet.   If you can talk yourself into dropping down to 124gr, they're $89/1,000 when you buy 2,000 or more of the JHP.  That's also a great option.

 

Good luck.  

[haiedras]

If you like N320, you'll like the Prima V.  It meters well, burns clean and is within a few tenths of a grain (or the same) of N320; all at half the cost

Cool. If only I didn't have 40+ lbs of tg and that much in csb1 and 9.5a combined. [emoji28]

[thermobollocks]

3.1-ish of Titegroup and the Bayou 147 at 1.14" (or possibly shorter, depending on how your chamber is) is pretty sweet. No need to shy away from Titegroup or coated bullets due to experience level. Just remember to seat and crimp in separate steps and flare the case mouth generously.

[Outcrydrummer]

Thanks for the info guys. 

I may just end up grabbing some berrys 147 grains since they seem to be carried by everyone locally. 

 

Just curious here but will i need to drop down from a 16lb recoil spring to a 13 or so when i start shooting the less hot rounds?

[Beef15]

Thanks for the info guys. 
I may just end up grabbing some berrys 147 grains since they seem to be carried by everyone locally. 
 
Just curious here but will i need to drop down from a 16lb recoil spring to a 13 or so when i start shooting the less hot rounds?

Need to, not likely.

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[Djp55]

12 hours ago, IDescribe said:

 

As Hi Power Jack said, Precision Delta.  They have a 147 RN and a 147 TC.  Both would be great.   There is a significant price savings for buying 2,000 or more -- $124 for 1,000, or $104/1000 if you buy 2,000 or more.  Shipping is free.  That's a great price on a great bullet.   If you can talk yourself into dropping down to 124gr, they're $89/1,000 when you buy 2,000 or more of the JHP.  That's also a great option.

 

Good luck.  

 

Out of curiosity, why go the JHP route? Sorry if it's a noob question, just looking for info. 

[Outcrydrummer]

Is there a benefit to using a 13lb spring shooting in the 130ish power factor range?

[thermobollocks]

Not on the M&P, no. The M&P starts to run into reliability problems when you drop below 15.

[IDescribe]

1 hour ago, Djp55 said:

 

Out of curiosity, why go the JHP route? Sorry if it's a noob question, just looking for info. 

 

It's not a noob question, and the truth is that the advantages are so minor as to be questionable at action pistol shooting distances.  This is not going to make or break anyone's score.

The short version:

1. Because a 9mm pistol's chamber is going to allow almost all FMJ-RN to load longer than the magazine will allow, even at the max of 1.169 there's a whole lot of distance between the bullet and the rifling that the loader has no control over.  With a JHP, where the chamber is the limiting factor, the loader has complete control over that jump distance, all the way up to and including contact with the rifling.  This control allows more options to tune during load development.
2. A JHP has a more "perfect" base than an FMJ because in a JHP, it's the base of the jacket that gets swaged into the mould.  The FMJ has the more perfect nose.  Since the last interaction between pistol and bullet is between the barrel's crown and the bullet's base, the better base on the JHP is an advantage in precision.  Again, not necessarily significant at action pistol shooting distances. 
3. FMJ has an exposed lead base, and some people are more comfortable exposing a JHP's copper base directly to the blast than the FMJ's lead base.  Whether or not this is worthwhile is debatable. 

NOW, again, we're talking minor advantages here, nothing to lose sleep over the night before an aciton pistol match, nothing that's going to affect your score.  But if JHP offers even the slightest benefit, why not take it?  That's how I look at it.  If there's not a specific compelling reason to take RN (sometimes there is), I'll take JHP every time.  

[Djp55]

Fantastic write up, thanks for the info. Does TMJ bridge this gap a bit, since it'll cover at least #3 and maybe #2?

[GlockCanMan]

Well after reading everyone's comments, I just have to say, if you want to stay with Tite group and Bayou bullets...just do it.  There is nothing wrong with that selection.  Some people say to start with FMJ...not needed.  Just be slow and careful when you setup your dies, as stated above FMJ is more forgiving, but not a must do.  Others are telling you to use a type of powder that will fill the case up so you don't do a double charge...I have never felt the need for that because I just pay attention to what I do when reloading, and never let my powder measure go below a certain level and run occasional checks on what my powder measure drops into the cases.

 

I good dial caliper would also be nice to have also.  What type of press/powder measure are you using?

 

No body has mentioned or talked about primers though.  I use Federal primers because they are the softest out there and most of my competition guns have been modified, especially my wheel guns that have a 6lb double action pull and require them.  If your guns have been modified you might have a problem with CCI primers as they are pretty hard.  Federal makes the softest, then Winchester in the middle and CCI as being the hardest.  While there are other brands out there, I don't have any experience using them.

 

Myself I use 3.1gr. of N320 with the 147gr Bayou Bullet. 

 

Enjoy reloading...just remember while you have fun reloading, just be careful and pay attention to what you do.