Tuning a 9mm PCC for factory ammo

[barrysuperhawk]

There are a lot of threads on how to tune the ammo to make the PCC run good, but here's my question.  If one were to pick a factory ammo, say Winchester White box, and tune the gun to that ammo instead of trying to tune the ammo.  This isn't really a hypothetical for me, I hate loading 9mm with a passion, so I typically run whatever wally world has the cheapest.

 

I have learned a few things about my PCC and factory ammo.  First, if I want to shoot the aluminum CCI or FED ammo, I need to add one of those inserts that bridges the gap between the mag and the chamber as upon feeding, the edge of the chamber hits the side of the case before the case head is centered on the bolt and makes a sort of a stretch mark.  This causes jams about every 20-25 rounds.  Steel case ammo is better, and much lighter (faster follow up shots) but it is dirty (surprise, surprise) not only after firing, but out of the box there is a dust or film on the cases that you have to clean the heck out of or it will cause jams.  Think rounds with sand included...  Tumbling fixes this, and I discovered tumbling the rounds with a bit of case lube slicks them right up, almost as nice as brass, kinda like red AA hulls.  I run mostly WWB, from the 100 round packs. and it does seem to be an awesome value, being not much more costly than the aluminum or steel, but with none of the drawbacks.  The only complaint is it is hotter than the other options, thus I get more recoil and movement.  

 

Overall, if I were going to try to tune this gun to any specific ammo, the WWB would be it.  So, how would I do it?  Starting with a Stock ATI 9mm, what can I do?  I have replaced the stock FH with one of the ebay JM clone comps, and while it does not seem to make much difference on the recoil, it is loud enough that all of my shots get picked up now.  I assume a different spring/buffer/bolt are going to be in my future, but there are enough options out there to give me a headache..  Any suggestions on where to start?

[MRBACKHAND]

Spring and buffer would be my starting point. I have had great luck with my spinta BCG , I did take out the extra weight. I'm using the MBX buffer and yellow spring which has cut done dot bounce significantly but it is a bit pricey.

Edited June 28, 2017 by MRBACKHAND

[59nolimit]

I am curious what replies you get myself. I wan to do the same. I shoot my stand 1 armory chubbies in it now but my justification for buying it was I have a few thousand rounds of factory 115gr I want to shoot up but the chubbies are much much much nicer to shoot at this point. I have a JP GMR-13 and was going to try the different weights in it but I got a deal on a MBX buffer I will be trying. I checked out the taccom buffer at the pandemic match last month and it is definitely worth looking it. Taccom and MBX are doing great things for the PCC's 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I would start with a 308 spring, 5.5-7.5oz buffers and shoot 115's. Comp won't matter but a heavier barrel hand guard setup will help keep the muzzle down. Thanks, Eric

[TRUBL]

8 hours ago, barrysuperhawk said:

There are a lot of threads on how to tune the ammo to make the PCC run good, but here's my question.  If one were to pick a factory ammo, say Winchester White box, and tune the gun to that ammo instead of trying to tune the ammo.  This isn't really a hypothetical for me, I hate loading 9mm with a passion, so I typically run whatever wally world has the cheapest.

 

I have learned a few things about my PCC and factory ammo.  First, if I want to shoot the aluminum CCI or FED ammo, I need to add one of those inserts that bridges the gap between the mag and the chamber as upon feeding, the edge of the chamber hits the side of the case before the case head is centered on the bolt and makes a sort of a stretch mark.  This causes jams about every 20-25 rounds.  Steel case ammo is better, and much lighter (faster follow up shots) but it is dirty (surprise, surprise) not only after firing, but out of the box there is a dust or film on the cases that you have to clean the heck out of or it will cause jams.  Think rounds with sand included...  Tumbling fixes this, and I discovered tumbling the rounds with a bit of case lube slicks them right up, almost as nice as brass, kinda like red AA hulls.  I run mostly WWB, from the 100 round packs. and it does seem to be an awesome value, being not much more costly than the aluminum or steel, but with none of the drawbacks.  The only complaint is it is hotter than the other options, thus I get more recoil and movement.  

 

Overall, if I were going to try to tune this gun to any specific ammo, the WWB would be it.  So, how would I do it?  Starting with a Stock ATI 9mm, what can I do?  I have replaced the stock FH with one of the ebay JM clone comps, and while it does not seem to make much difference on the recoil, it is loud enough that all of my shots get picked up now.  I assume a different spring/buffer/bolt are going to be in my future, but there are enough options out there to give me a headache..  Any suggestions on where to start?

You shoulda come talk to me more last weekend!!!

Tim

[barrysuperhawk]

9 hours ago, TRUBL said:

You shoulda come talk to me more last weekend!!!

Tim

Er, I was working, LOL, the few minutes I had on my lunch break when I did come see you Friday were your lunch break too, so I didn't want to bother you.  Heck, I didn't even get lunch at all Sunday (not that I don't have enough stored reserve).

 

OTOH, you are here now... 

[mike4045]

I run a carbine buffer and a 308 spring in mine.

[2alphas]

+1 for Taccom/Tim doing great things supporting the PCC development and growth.

[reshp1]

I went super heavy initially (25.5 oz total) and it reduces recoil a lot, but the reciprocating weight is almost as bad for disturbing aim. The whole gun jumps just closing the bolt. I'm messing with reducing weight a bit at a time, but haven't really found a sweet spot yet. Im going to give the Blitzkrieg/Kynshot Hydraulic buffer a try here soon as well, I've heard good things about it smoothing things out considerably. 

 

I have a feeling without tuning loads, it's all relatively incremental improvements though. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by reshp1

[blaster113]

Try the MBX buffer with either a Wolff XP or .308 buffer spring.  The buffer made a noticeable difference with loads that were running 155 pf out of the rifle.  Another alternative is the Spike's ST-9X extended 9oz buffer, and a XP buffer spring.  This was my old setup and worked well for me also.

[TRUBL]

Barry....call me after the 4th.......don't go down the 308/heavy buffer shopping aisle. We'll set you up.

 

Tim

[TheTodd]

Superhawk, what did Tim do to fix it? Thanks...Ken

[thepunishur]

On 9/11/2017 at 9:54 PM, TheTodd said:

Superhawk, what did Tim do to fix it? Thanks...Ken

I would like to know as well...

[barrysuperhawk]

Actually I have not called him yet, mostly because I'm really bad about remembering to call during business hours, it's usually 7:30 pm during the week, or when I'm in the middle of something else that I think "oh yeah I need to call"

 

[Supertrunk]

If you advise NOT to "go down the 308/heavy buffer shopping aisle", where I was thinking of going, what aisle DO you recommend?

 

Thanks for the time.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Supertrunk

[barrysuperhawk]

Well I promise to publish any solutions I come up with if they're not online already

[barrysuperhawk]

Okay I will try to summarize.

Point number one don't shoot 115's, point number two shoot 124s,

point number three use the tacom adjustable buffer and a rifle spring and tune is necessary.  

 

I think I am going to go with a heavier spring first, and see if I can tell a difference.  ( mostly because I already have them laying around and thus don't need to buy anything).

 

One of my fellow Shooters blew up is buffer tonight, apparently he had a carbine buffer and a standard spring in it and the rubber part of the carbine buffer mushroomed out and split and locked the gun up. So I'm going to look very closely at my buffer when I pull it out to see if there's any damage on it.  

 

Personally I don't want to give up on the 115es because they're so darn cheap. Does anyone know if there's someplace making an SJC or better style brake for a 9mm? Does a 9mm even have enough poof at the end of its Barrel to make it break work?

[BigBamBoo]

Brakes on a 9mm are pretty useless. Maybe a mid length comp might work.

 

I have tried Heavy Buffers Q-buffer, JP SCS, Taccom adjustable buffer, and Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer. 

 

I have a JP GMR-13 and two Taccom ULW upper based rigs.

 

The Taccom rigs with the Blitzkrieg Buffers run much softer and flatter then any other setups I have tried.

 

I use WWB 115gr ammo exclusively. Here is one of my Taccom upper rigs. You can see have flat it shoots in this video:

 

 

[barrysuperhawk]

Ok, so is there a difference between the hydraulic buffers?  Is the blitzkrieg better than any of the other choices, or is that just what you have?

[BigBamBoo]

I am not personally aware of any other hydraulic buffers made specifically for 9mm use. All I know is my rigs all have the Blitz and they work VERY well. YMMV

 

 

[L9X25]

What spring are you using with that buffer?

[BigBamBoo]

In my rigs, with the Taccom uppers, I am using JP .308, carbine springs. 

 

Again, this is using WWB, 115gr factory ammo.

Edited October 5, 2017 by BigBamBoo

[barrysuperhawk]

Ok, I caught a sale on Blitzkreig's own website, so I have a Blitzkreig buffer and a JP spring on the way and will report the differences.

 

I have also noticed something very interesting, the WWB 9mm 115 we all know and love is DIFFERENT when it comes in a 200 round pack.  I bought 5 of these from a wally world and every one has a nato cross, crimped primer case and "WCC 17" head stamp.  They are also noticibly hotter than the standard no crimp "win 9mm luger" head stamped 115's.   I noticed the head stamps right off, but when shooting a mixed mag, I get the bang, bang, BANG, bang, BANG bad enough that the RO asked if I was shooting different ammo.  I have not had a chance to chrono...

[BigBamBoo]

Interesting. I have a bunch of the 200 rd bulk packs. I will have to take a look at them.

[IsaacB]

Sounds like you picked up 9mm NATO.