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Hi guys,

Hoping someone can chime in and help steer me in the right direction here...Shot a little indoor match last night (4 stages) and had several light strikes/hammer falls on each stage. This is my match gun, barely has 1K rounds through it. I have never had this happen with this pistol (practice gun was a different story) so i want to get this squared away before my next match.

Here is my current set up:

 

Ammo:

  • Blue Bullets 125g
  • Winchester small pistol primers
  • Vectan BA 9.5 powder
  • OAL @ 1.125 +/-
  • Mixed range brass

 

Pistol:

  • Stock barrel reamed to SAMI spec by Patriot Defense
  • PD BOLO (fitted with the help of PD)
  • 10lb recoil spring
  • 15.5 PD hammer spring
  • PD optimized trigger return spring
  • PD optimized sear spring
  • PD optimized firing pin spring
  • Extreme firing pin (polished)
  • Extreme one piece sear (polished)
  • Extended firing pin block
  • Stock plunger (polished)
  • Stock plunger spring
  • Titan hammer (base and holes polished as instructed)
  • All applicable internals polished for smoother action/lighter trigger pulls, but nothing too crazy (I do not have trigger pull weights to disclose unfortunately)

 

I case gauge every single round i load before matches as well as practice, and this time was no different. I'm not concerned about crazy light trigger pull weights, etc. I set this gun up with the intention of 100% reliability at matches. This is the first and only time she has behaved this way so my initial reaction was a bad/hard batch of primers but I'm not fully bought into that idea yet... I haven't changed a single thing over the past several matches where she ran 100% with this exact set up (ammo included)

 

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you fellow shooters can offer.

 

-Chase

Edited by chaserracer
updated info

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Check primer seating depth. Fixed it for mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Thanks Kujo929,

I load on a Dillon 650 so the primer seating depth in not adjustable unfortunately. That being said, i definitely give it that extra "umph" when seating the primers and when i case gauge always make sure they are below flush.

 

-Chase

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I had sporadic light strikes on DA only.  

If you have random DA light strikes, and 2nd DA strike goes off, it can be either primer seating, or DA is short stoking occasionally.  Since you have BOLO disco, you might want to check out the other thread for "increasing DA pull".  I did that and I am now rid of the sporadic light strikes on DA, and I use SB primers.

 

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That extra umph won't do it for you. The 650 seats them where it wants to.

I've done most all of the things to my Stock II that you have to yours with the exception being the hammer spring. Mine is a 14 pound. I too had light strikes until I adjusted my S1050 to where it seats primers to the ,005 below the flush mark which solved the problem for both Winchester, and CCI SSPs. 

As an experiment I readjusted the seating depth to .003 inch and went to the range with a bag full of ammo. About one, maybe two, out of ten wouldn't light off when in DA mode, and on a couple of occasions I got an FTF in SA.

I readjusted my seating depth to .006, went back to the range, and everything is now 100%.

Three suggestions: Buy a new S1050. Super glue a shim to the top of the primer seating rod that will get you to the right depth. Or, use Federal SSPs (if you can find them).

Good luck. 

Edited by MikieM

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Thank you JusiceOfToren,

I will read through that thread and see if i can gain some ground. Much appreciated.

 

-Chase

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Thanks MikieM,

...Well shit :( No of those sound very awesome... My 650 is all of 3 months old, federals as you know are unicorns, and super-gluing anything ammo/firearms related scares me...

All things considered I'm just confused on why this is happening "all of a sudden".

 

-Chase

 

 

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3 minutes ago, chaserracer said:

Thanks MikieM,

...Well shit :( No of those sound very awesome... My 650 is all of 3 months old, federals as you know are unicorns, and super-gluing anything ammo/firearms related scares me...

All things considered I'm just confused on why this is happening "all of a sudden".

 

-Chase

 

 

 

All part of the wonderful world we live in here at USPSA Central. 

Give MemphisMechanic a PM. I think he loads with a 650.

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You need a Titan hammer or you need to check for firing pin channel burr, firing pin hole burr, hammer contacting slide, and I did receive a bent Extreme firing pin.  Check DA hammer stroke length and the harder you push on the 650 the harder it pushes on the primer.  Don't know why someone would say it doesn't matter.  The primer push rod will fully travel well past the shell plate.

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1 hour ago, MikieM said:

The 650 seats them where it wants to.

 

Unless the shellplate is loose.

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Thanks leemoe83,

i edited the post above as i failed to mention i  currently have the Titan hammer on both my practice and match Stock 2's. Ive confirmed both the firing pin channel and hole are smooth and free of any burrs or blemishes. When you say "Check DA hammer stroke length" - what measurement should i be looking for exactly? to the naked eye it seems to be traveling the full length before dropping but i haven't taken any measurements etc.

 

-Chase

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One thing i haven't done (or needed to do so i thought) was to "fit" the extended firing pin block on this gun...I was able to drop it right in along with the Extreme firing pin, polish it,  and it ran flawlessly. However, that wasn't the case with my back up gun, i needed to polish AND fit it to operate properly. Could it be Ive just been lucky up until now and its "hanging up" the firing pin and keeping it from punching the primers? the thing of it is, all the light strikes i was able to recover at the match were very well dimpled, nothing "light" about it by the looks of it. Unfortunately i didn't think to keep any for picture reference. Shame on me.

 

-Chase

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90% of light strikes are ammo related.  start there.

 

Measure primer depth on 100 rounds. Sort by depth, da fire each group.  i bet your only going to find FTF in the 0.003 or closer to flush group. You may in fact find some higher than flush.

 

Is the gun clean? Fully chambering forward? Some crud or other condition could be keeping slightly out of battery. (Like bulging ammo)

 

Firing pin block dragging? Remove it and da fire 50-100 rounds.

 

Take apart 50 rounds and see if you have contamination  (oil, case lube, water, etc) in the ammo.

 

If not in a match, NEVER EVER double strike the ammo. Rack it out and inspect to find out WHY.  plunk, tap, spin, dump test it. Measure the primer depth.  then either  take it apart or try and refire it.

 

When reloading 9mm, only use cases that have been swaged or decrimped. Always use case lube. ALWAYS.  it helps in sizing and that leaves more energy to seat the primers.

 

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, leemoe83 said:

You need a Titan hammer or you need to check for firing pin channel burr, firing pin hole burr, hammer contacting slide, and I did receive a bent Extreme firing pin.  Check DA hammer stroke length and the harder you push on the 650 the harder it pushes on the primer.  Don't know why someone would say it doesn't matter.  The primer push rod will fully travel well past the shell plate.

 

Because it doesn't. The 650 will only seat primers so deep. Pushing harder on the handle will not seat them deeper. 

Dillon 550Bs and Cs, and 650 XLs are non-adjustable as to primer seating depth. Only the 1050s are.

There is currently a thread going that outlines changing the distance the Stock II hammer falls. This could be of some benefit. 

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Thank you johnbu,

To answer the above - Yes, gun was cleaned prior to the match, and is fully chambering all rounds that were used/inspected. I will take your advice and try removing the firing pin block for 50-100rds to test and i will also introduce case lube into my reloading process. Unfortunately my brass is what it is...From a financial standpoint i can only afford range brass and what i get/pick up is just going to have to do for now.

Just for giggles i took all the remaining match ammo i had leftover and plunk tested every round (approx 125) they all plunked, spun and dropped no issue whatsoever.

When you say " Take apart 50 rounds and see if you have contamination " are you suggesting i load 50 rounds and then immediately pull them and inspect them? Not being a smart-ass just trying to understand the reasoning there.

Thank you for the helpful suggestions!

 

-Chase

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20 minutes ago, johnbu said:

90% of light strikes are ammo related.  start there.

 

Measure primer depth on 100 rounds. Sort by depth, da fire each group.  i bet your only going to find FTF in the 0.003 or closer to flush group. You may in fact find some higher than flush.

 

Is the gun clean? Fully chambering forward? Some crud or other condition could be keeping slightly out of battery. (Like bulging ammo)

 

Firing pin block dragging? Remove it and da fire 50-100 rounds.

 

Take apart 50 rounds and see if you have contamination  (oil, case lube, water, etc) in the ammo.

 

If not in a match, NEVER EVER double strike the ammo. Rack it out and inspect to find out WHY.  plunk, tap, spin, dump test it. Measure the primer depth.  then either  take it apart or try and refire it.

 

When reloading 9mm, only use cases that have been swaged or decrimped. Always use case lube. ALWAYS.  it helps in sizing and that leaves more energy to seat the primers.

 

Good luck!

 

John, I can't at all agree with the last thing you said. The energy expended by the stroke of the press handle is not dissipated by an unlubed case. Besides, the 650 primes after the case has already gone into the die.

 

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^^ im not a blue dude, my "assumption" looks to be wrong.  thanks.

 

 

On taking apart ammo....

 

No, the batch that has problems.  When everything looks good on the outside... check the insides.  i pick up unfired rounds after matches and have seen "clumpy" sticky powder in some that have failed to fire with solid strike dents.

 

On the cases,  i use a carbide burr in a drill to chamfer the crimp out.  And i too reload scrounged range brass. Getting the primer pocket crimp out has solved the bulk of my issues (using low buck Lee Toadmaster).

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I made a boo-boo, also. I was checking primer depth in my 550B and realized that priming occurred after the case was sized.

None-the-less, there was no difference in seating depth between lubed and unlubed cases. Both were flush with the case head.

I think that someone (are you listening Joe?) should make a plus .005 primer seating rod for the 550 and 650 Dillon. ^_^

 

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3 hours ago, leemoe83 said:

You need a Titan hammer or you need to check for firing pin channel burr, firing pin hole burr, hammer contacting slide, and I did receive a bent Extreme firing pin.  Check DA hammer stroke length and the harder you push on the 650 the harder it pushes on the primer.  Don't know why someone would say it doesn't matter.  The primer push rod will fully travel well past the shell plate.

 

Oh boy.

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1 hour ago, johnbu said:

^^ im not a blue dude, my "assumption" looks to be wrong.  thanks.

 

 

On taking apart ammo....

 

No, the batch that has problems.  When everything looks good on the outside... check the insides.  i pick up unfired rounds after matches and have seen "clumpy" sticky powder in some that have failed to fire with solid strike dents.

 

On the cases,  i use a carbide burr in a drill to chamfer the crimp out.  And i too reload scrounged range brass. Getting the primer pocket crimp out has solved the bulk of my issues (using low buck Lee Toadmaster).

 

I just had a long talk with him about the 650...

 

Plus, second strike lights = primer depth. 

 

I run 10# springs in 2 guns. Never had a light strike. .007-.009 gets it done. 

20161025_183348.jpg

20161130_190712.jpg

Edited by SoCalShooter69

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4 hours ago, MikieM said:

 

All part of the wonderful world we live in here at USPSA Central. 

Give MemphisMechanic a PM. I think he loads with a 650.

 

Yes, but he put a shim (s) in his to load deeper. You can't go deep enough with a 650 when loading for a finicky gat.

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Dude has a 15.5 lb spring, it should light Winchester, CCI, anything American.  His gun is messed up, plan and simple.  You will never deform a primer to that depth with a 650 but pushing real hard does insure it is seated all the way and makes a difference.  Your suggestion is a $1700 dollar fix that doesn't fix the actual problem.

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If you havent done the "bolo adjustment for longer da pull" I would definitely start there. That may not be the actual problem, but it may be a free solution. Mine wouldn't pop cci primers 60% of the time. Now it eats them like skittles.

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1 hour ago, leemoe83 said:

Dude has a 15.5 lb spring, it should light Winchester, CCI, anything American.  His gun is messed up, plan and simple.  You will never deform a primer to that depth with a 650 but pushing real hard does insure it is seated all the way and makes a difference.  Your suggestion is a $1700 dollar fix that doesn't fix the actual problem.

ALL my s2's and the lim pro have a 15.5 PD hammer spring. I just ran 35 rounds all DA on a batch of Sellier and Bellot primed.  previously did the same with wolf primed.

 

All went bang. I verify function when starting a new reloading "campaign".

 

I have 3000 loaded up with wolf primers, shot about that many. Also have about 1000 SB loaded and shot 2000. No problems on any of them.

 

FYI, with meticulous preparation, the DA trigger pull can still be under 5 1/2# with the 15.5 spring.  My S2's are anyway.

 

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