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Sig P320 X5 Case Separation and Extractor Loss

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Gents,

Just wanted to share an experience I had with my new X5 in CO.  To share the setup, I had Robert Burke do his competition trigger job which feels great; I also have a tungsten guide rod, other than that, the gun is stock.

Ive put about 2000 rounds through it no issue, but the other day I was at the range and had a case separation.  It was not a double charge, but it did blow out the extractor.  I called Sig and the rep said the X5 is designed to do exactly that, blow out the extractor to save other vital parts, whenever there is an over pressure situation.

I was running 165 Xtreme RN plated with 2.7 of VV310.  I sent thousands of these rounds through Glocks, 1911s, 2011, PCC, Tanfo Stock 2. with no issues. 

Alma Cole was able to hook me up with some backup parts and the Sig shop did sent out replacements, although I had to pay for them.  They said for me to get warranty service, I would have to send the entire gun in.

I'm hoping this was a fluke due to a really weak casing - if anyone has any other thoughts please share.  Thanks,

Tom

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I had the same thing happen on a FS P320. It was a weakend case, and the gun was fine after I repleced the extractor with a spare I had.

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If you had a problem while shooting reloads and they still offered warranty service (regardless of whether you had to send it in), they must have changed their policy.  I discovered a small crack in the chamber of an older model 226 several years ago, and the best they would do was offer a discount on a new barrel because I shot reloads.

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You're never supposed to admit to shooting reloaded ammo when contacting customer service! Thats like telling the cop you were only going 5 over, not 10. 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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Yeah, I guess I learned that the hard way. 

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Vihtavuori doesn't publish data for even N320 with a 147gr plated bullet, much less N310, so not only is this N310, it's with an even heavier 165gr bullet.  

I think I may know what happened.  :rolleyes:

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Vihtavuori doesn't publish data for even N320 with a 147gr plated bullet, much less N310, so not only is this N310, it's with an even heavier 165gr bullet.  

I think I may know what happened.  :rolleyes:

Possibly. But I can't count the number of guys using n320 and 147s for minimal pf loads.

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1 hour ago, f2benny said:


Possibly. But I can't count the number of guys using n320 and 147s for minimal pf loads.
 


Right.  And N310 is yet faster burning powder, where you are guaranteed higher peak pressure for the same velocity with the same bullet at the same OAL, and 165gr is yet a heavier bullet, where you get greater pressure increases per tenth of a grain of powder, so less forgiving.

The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before."  But when you're running at the raggedy edge, when you're running well into or over +P --  as many people do with super fast powders and super heavy bullets, trying to chase down the holy grail of soft felt recoil -- when you're at that raggedy edge, it doesn't take a double-charge for a catastrophic failure.  It might only take a little bridging in the powder drop so that a cartridge gets an extra .2gr.  

Every weekend guns blow up running high pressure calibers like 9mm Luger loaded with super fast powders that are meant for low pressure cartridges like .45.   Occasional kabooms are a predictable outcome. ;) 

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does your striker release out of battery?    How close is your load to getting into the rifling?   The X5 I borrowed will release out of battery, if you were into the lands and released out of battery that'd be a pretty big problem.  

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:36 AM, IDescribe said:


Right.  And N310 is yet faster burning powder, where you are guaranteed higher peak pressure for the same velocity with the same bullet at the same OAL, and 165gr is yet a heavier bullet, where you get greater pressure increases per tenth of a grain of powder, so less forgiving.

The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before."  But when you're running at the raggedy edge, when you're running well into or over +P --  as many people do with super fast powders and super heavy bullets, trying to chase down the holy grail of soft felt recoil -- when you're at that raggedy edge, it doesn't take a double-charge for a catastrophic failure.  It might only take a little bridging in the powder drop so that a cartridge gets an extra .2gr.  

Every weekend guns blow up running high pressure calibers like 9mm Luger loaded with super fast powders that are meant for low pressure cartridges like .45.   Occasional kabooms are a predictable outcome. ;) 

 

This

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On 6/21/2017 at 8:36 AM, IDescribe said:


Right.  And N310 is yet faster burning powder, where you are guaranteed higher peak pressure for the same velocity with the same bullet at the same OAL, and 165gr is yet a heavier bullet, where you get greater pressure increases per tenth of a grain of powder, so less forgiving.

The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before."  But when you're running at the raggedy edge, when you're running well into or over +P --  as many people do with super fast powders and super heavy bullets, trying to chase down the holy grail of soft felt recoil -- when you're at that raggedy edge, it doesn't take a double-charge for a catastrophic failure.  It might only take a little bridging in the powder drop so that a cartridge gets an extra .2gr.  

Every weekend guns blow up running high pressure calibers like 9mm Luger loaded with super fast powders that are meant for low pressure cartridges like .45.   Occasional kabooms are a predictable outcome. ;) 

 N310 with 165gr?  Yeah, what he said . . .   Mixed range brass? A little variance in the powder drop combined with a lower volume case and you get a round on the high end of the pressure scale for the load.

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My friend's 320 rx pictures below, out of battery firing, barrel appears to be short chambered, not enough case support...see pix belowe4beea1fa0bdcbe78d8767dc9986b6f0.jpg52d9022f40faddad712644523844677e.jpg70883b277d0b61be7148fa3589eb2b39.jpg


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Looks like that was one of the two Sigs that lost their extractor from blow outs at Sunday's match. 

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This is actually another new Sig p320 RX, besides the 2 sig blow outs last match


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On 6/21/2017 at 7:36 AM, IDescribe said:


Right.  And N310 is yet faster burning powder, where you are guaranteed higher peak pressure for the same velocity with the same bullet at the same OAL, and 165gr is yet a heavier bullet, where you get greater pressure increases per tenth of a grain of powder, so less forgiving.

The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before."  But when you're running at the raggedy edge, when you're running well into or over +P --  as many people do with super fast powders and super heavy bullets, trying to chase down the holy grail of soft felt recoil -- when you're at that raggedy edge, it doesn't take a double-charge for a catastrophic failure.  It might only take a little bridging in the powder drop so that a cartridge gets an extra .2gr.  

Every weekend guns blow up running high pressure calibers like 9mm Luger loaded with super fast powders that are meant for low pressure cartridges like .45.   Occasional kabooms are a predictable outcome. ;) 

 

Maybe.  But that doesn't excuse poor design and quality control.  Also, N320/147g or N310/165g at 125-130 pf are probably a good deal lower pressure than factory +P or +P+ loads, which should be safe to shoot in these guns.  Look at the photos g mac posted of the barrel and factory ammo shot in that barrel.  That is totally unacceptable.  So I see this as a manufacturer issue not an ammo issue.

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On July 12, 2017 at 7:09 PM, g mac said:

My friend's 320 rx pictures below, out of battery firing, barrel appears to be short chambered, not enough case support...see pix belowe4beea1fa0bdcbe78d8767dc9986b6f0.jpg52d9022f40faddad712644523844677e.jpg70883b277d0b61be7148fa3589eb2b39.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dang, I thought my 320 was the only one that swaged a belt on 9mm cases! Got a whole lot more than the handful you've got pictured too!

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Just as a follow up, it appears that one case separation was a fluke.  The gun has been running flawlessly with mixed brass with 165gn plated, 158gn 38/.357, and 147 factory since.  All with VV310.  My buddy took 1st place in the Delmarva championship with the X5 in CO.  I chalk it up to a piece of brass that was probably already significantly compromised.

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1 hour ago, dansedgli said:

Any more issues with your ammo rpm8300?

 

Did you mate's gun get fixed g mac? 

yes. Sig Sauer replaced his barrel with a new one after he sent it to them.

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5 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

That's interesting, thanks! 

You are welcome! 👍🏼 Cheers!

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I had a case blowout this past saturday with my P320RX of 2019 manufacture that also blew out the extractor. My load (135 gr RMR JFP over 3.8gr A#2) is fairly mild and does not swell the back end of the case like the pics above but they will grow about .002"-.004". Like others said I never had a problem before this. Its a compounded issue of weakened cases and the chamber design. The chamber on the 320's is horribly unsupported and a questionable design in my opinion. It's bad enough so much case is hanging out beyond the chamber face to headspace just below flush with the hood. But they add insult to injury by a "funneled" cut a good 1/8"-3/16" in from the chamber face. Almost like they used a revolver forcing cone cutter to give it a elongated mouth to enhance feeding. The rear 1/3rd of the case is freely able to bloat. Because of this a case that is weakened has the room to fail whereas the same case in a supported chamber most likely would have survived. Im looking into an aftermarket barrel that at least doesn't have that funnel cut nonsense, just a standard chamfer, for a little more support for my own peace of mind. 

Edited by BallisticianX

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