TheBrick Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Scenario is a stage where the competitor must activate a stomp pad either before, during or after entering the shooting area. Rules section 8 prohibits handgun, ammo or ammo device in hand at start I found no rule that would prohibit the competitor holding an object (rock, squib rod, etc) in his hand at the start signal to drop on the stomp pad. Or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JodiH Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Are you saying you want to require this or prohibit clever shooters from doing this? A very well written WSB is what would control this in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Also might depend on weight required to activate the "stomp pad". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrick Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 I do not want to inhibit freestyle thinking and I do not like lengthy legal like written stage descriptions to prohibit an action. I also do not want to require the holding of an object as that could easily be written into the start position. I just want to know if it is legal under the rules for the competitor to hold an object, other than gun, mags or ammo prohibited in rule 8 something, in their hand at the start signal. Yes, the thought process is to activate the stomp pad while passing it entering into the shooting box rather than make the detour and step on it or pulling a mag out of the pouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosher Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I would think hands relaxed at sides precludes someone from holding something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Gamer ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes that's allowed. I've even shot a stage like that at an area match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes. Recently shot at a match where, at the start, I had to throw a bag filled with shot at a stomp pad in order to activate a turner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) I believe he means not on the stage description for the start position to involve holding something, rather "hands relaxed at sides" or similar start...I have heard that "hands relaxed at sides" would not include holding even a very small rock or something like that in your hand....although I would argue if the start position states something like "hands above shoulders", "hands crossed on chest" etc then there is no rule not permitting you to "game" it by holding something (other than a gun, mag or ammo) Edited May 12, 2017 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Oh I read that wrong. I thought you meant everyone start holding an object. So you want to hold something that's not a stage prop to drop on stomp pad? Like when you're on deck, walking over to side berm and picking up a big rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I've seen competitors toss a loaded mag on a stomp box to activate it, but I've never seen someone want to start with a rock in their hand. If that's considered competitor equipment, I'd have to ask where they have been carrying it for the rest of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrick Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 The stage description will be "hands at sides." Nothing about requiring an object to be held or thrown or used to activate the stomp pad. That will be the gamer/s plan to avoid sidestepping onto the pad and then to the shooting box. There will only be two steps from start position to shooting box so grabbing a mag out of a pouch would not be as quick as already holding something in their hand. I would need something more than "I heard" to not start a competitor because he is holding something in their hand if they choose to do so. I need a rule that prohibits the act of holding an object in their hands at the start position other than as previously mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Nationals is Tulsa required holding a can, at waist height I believe. Desert Classic had a baby. This list goes on and on. We have had local matches with both object in hand and a stomp pad. And YES people threw the object to activate the stomp pad. So no you are not missing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 11 hours ago, TheBrick said: The stage description will be "hands at sides." Nothing about requiring an object to be held or thrown or used to activate the stomp pad. That will be the gamer/s plan to avoid sidestepping onto the pad and then to the shooting box. There will only be two steps from start position to shooting box so grabbing a mag out of a pouch would not be as quick as already holding something in their hand. I would need something more than "I heard" to not start a competitor because he is holding something in their hand if they choose to do so. I need a rule that prohibits the act of holding an object in their hands at the start position other than as previously mentioned. You actually don't need a rule. Start position questions should be hashed out with the RM prior to the start of the match -- and the RM has final say on the wording in the WSB. I don't care what you decide (We'll allow that; we won't allow that) but some of my concerns with allowing it include: Do we set any limits? What if the object presents a possible hazard on the course, i.e. something that could snag the feet/legs of not just the competitor but the RO? Could the object damage the stomp pad, rendering it unusable, and forcing us to toss the stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I think you have to look at precedence. In over 20 years of shooting in this game, never has anybody ever put an object in his hands when the stage briefing said hands at sides. The persons writing stage briefings cannot think of every single scenario that someone might dream up in order to get some kind of advantage. If I were the ro it would be no go, and if the competitor challenged I would call for the rm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 yes. the other way we do this under IPSC rules is: when RO reads the briefing he says: "Start position is hands relaxed by sides AS DEMONSTRATED". At that point the RO or assistant demonstrates the legal start position. anything that greatly deviates from that (for example holding a rock) is no go. you tell the squad that. this should stop any arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Why not specify in the WSB that both hands must be behind head with fingers interlaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 On 5/11/2017 at 6:47 PM, TheBrick said: Scenario is a stage where the competitor must activate a stomp pad either before, during or after entering the shooting area. Rules section 8 prohibits handgun, ammo or ammo device in hand at start I found no rule that would prohibit the competitor holding an object (rock, squib rod, etc) in his hand at the start signal to drop on the stomp pad. Or am I missing something? Hands naturally relaxed at sides, unless otherwise stated in the WSB. How are you going to hold a rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Meditation stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ChuckS said: Meditation stone. Large, heavy meditation stone! Edited May 20, 2017 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 "Hands naturally relaxed at sides, holding full sized concrete block...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 hmmm name of device is "stomp" as in stomp on it with foot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 23 hours ago, terrydoc said: hmmm name of device is "stomp" as in stomp on it with foot? must be activated by shooter, does not have to be activated by your foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 That's why in IPSC in Australia we demonstrate and explain the activation requirements and only accept those . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 I tried to o this at an area 7 match a few years back. The Rm was called and I was not allowed to do it. He was eorried I might damage the prop. I wanted to use a hammer from my range back to activate a stomp plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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