Patrick Sweeney Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 This is a spin off from the discussions of 3-gun divisions. 3-gun requires even more activity (done right, anyway) than handgun. We have guys showing up in bdu trousers. After all, they're tough, roomy and have big pockets. But they're cammies. The rules don't allow cammies. As long as only the pants are cammies, we usually look the other way. (Split the seat in jeans just once, and everyone will show up in bdus the next time) We tell people in our club Match Guide not to wear cammies, but they still show up now and then. How do you guys handle it? (Maybe we should get a 'surplus" dealer here with tan/gray/black bdu trousers for sale at the next match?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 The army/navy surplus store in my town sells all different colors BDUs. So it is generally not a problem. Any store that supplies law enforcement or emt generally have a bdu type pant that will work. The other option is that Columbia/North Face/Ex Officio all my an outdoor pant with large open and flapped pockets. My columbia can convert to shorts in hot weather which is great in the southwest where the morning can be quite cool and heat up rather quickly. Sierra Trading Post and Campmor are to mail order companies with great prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I suggest three classes of 3 gun clothing: Open class: any color and any number of pockets Limited class: jeans only Tactical: cammies or all black I often wear blue BDUs. we don't forbid cammies at our local 2 gun but few wear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Having been in the military, I have plenty of BDU's but would never wear them to a match or out in public, just a personnel thing . I do like the feel of the BDU type pants though (having worn them on a daily basis for 9+ years) and the solid colored BDU pants have been my standard shooting pants for many years. Nice and loose with lots of pockets is always great . I have found that the $20 ripstop pants don't last very long and have been using the Brigade Quartermasters "combat cloth" BDU pants for over 4 years now. The first pairs I ever got are still in service and look as good as the newer pairs I have. They wear well and don't fade out that fast in the wash like the cotton ones do. They are also great in all types of weather here in AZ. From the heat of summer to the cool winters we have here at almost 5,000 feet they are great. They sell the "inspectors casualties" sometimes and if they have your size they are a great deal. I have never been able to tell what is wrong with them. Neal in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Here's one way to handle it if cammies are an issue. Take the fellow in violation of the no-cammy-rule aside and say that personally you don't care what dress code he adheres to, but out here at our little back-woods shooting range you never know when CNN, FOX or Time magazine will show up and pick this 3-gun competition to be their feature story on para-military training camps in the USA. Then have a good laugh over the absurdness of it all but still ask he not wear them at the next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahauptman Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 In the new IPSC Rules: 5.3.5 Code Of Dress - With the exception of serving military or police personnel who may wear their normal service clothing, "any clothing, or combination of clothing, which has a paramilitary style is considered inappropriate at IPSC Rifle competitions." Camouflage clothing of any irregular pattern is specifically banned except for serving military or police personnel as above. (Edited by sahauptman at 12:19 pm on Jan. 9, 2003) (Edited by sahauptman at 12:20 pm on Jan. 9, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahauptman Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 It doesn't have to be camo anymore to be inappropriate. Just paramilitary style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I wonder how the IPSC/USPSA lawyers would deal with the outdoor, hiking, camping clothes that look just like BDUs. Large open pockets, larger flap pockets, etc? Very paramilitary looking. I wonder police and emc pants are paramilitary looking also. Hmmmmm I guess I am not too PC most of the time. I shot the 2001 Region II match in my Columbia pants that could be considered paramilitary and nary a word was said except for my ugly white legs which reflected the sun so much it blinded a few shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArturoJ Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I like my Charhardt pants. At least I will look like an old fat roughneck/handyman/Alaskan/... , and not paramilitary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Oh My Goodness!! To think that cammos portray us in a bad light is just plain obserd!!! Do you all really think that if NBC showed up they wouldn't give 3 gun bad press just because no one is wearing BDU pants?? Don't think that would be the case when they see that whole rack full of Black Carbines?? Or guys "festooned" with lots of "Hi Cap" magazines??. Around here I see BDU pants and jackets ( M65 type this time of year) on just about all walkes of life. Trash guys, framers, clean up crews, oil field hands, field geologists, farmers, and quite a few back packers. To exclude a set of pants, because of them being camo, from matches is akin , to me. of excluding rifles of a certain color, or even mag pads of a certain color. If you honestly think that clothing will give the wrong image to the media and or othere people in general stop 3 gunning all together as this sport is about PIC as it gets. Lets quit kowtowing to the hopliphobes and just shoot, okay. KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I was under the impression that part of the reasoning had to do with image and that the rest had to do with a desire to ward the wannabe's off. I am open to a correction of that opinion. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 The clothing issue aside for a moment, what answer do you give when an outsider asks just exactly what we are simulating with our 3 gun competition? Would it matter if we were all in Barney outfits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I think everyone who is offended by camo BDUs should be required to shoot in a red English fox hunting get-up and break for tea between stages. Not everyone with a pair of comfortable, practical, durable BDUs is a "wannabe" or a "tactical whactical", some of are just ex-military or hunters. I think the image of IPSC/USPSA should be of an organization that values the content of ones character rather than the color of ones clothing. I hope the range never becomes a tennis club or golf course. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AH6IP Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 OK, everyone that owns Royal Robbins Tactical FBI (paramilitary)pants, turn them in immediately to me. Ref. that quote on the USPSA rule-I love the fact that Bennie Cooley was wearing them on the cover of Front Sight magazine at the last 3 Gun Nationals(paramilitary my foot!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 JHGTYRE: Wannabes are one match wonders! They show up once thinking that they are going to kick a## and take names because they are after all "tactical" and these "match" shooters just can't keep up with the truely rightous!!!! They then find out that "wanna" isn't nearly enough. These types of people are so seldom seen at matches that to make clothing restrictions based on them is ludicrous!! I have seen a grand total of 2 in the last 7 years of R.M.3 G. matches, and this IS club level we are talking about!!! We should never mention "tactical" and Royal in the same breath. This climber/ tree hugger just happened to lend his name to a haberdashery company that happens to make pants that were adopted by the FBI. Thier corporate line is very much anti hunting and anti gun. Check it out! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkmccoy Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I like Kelly N's solution... "I suggest three classes of 3 gun clothing: Open class: any color and any number of pockets Limited class: jeans only Tactical: cammies or all black " Being a basically Limited Division guy (although I shoot 3-gun Open because I want a scope on my rifle...not that I'm getting old and the eyes are going, I just like it) I've always worn blue jeans. However, I thoroughly split a pair of jeans in practice the other day going into prone position quickly. I either need to buy larger jeans or spend some time in the gym. Cheers, the "other" Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Camoflage patterns of all kinds are showing up on the racks at clothing stores. It's all the rage for young adults and kids. Gentlemen, it is not such a big deal no more to wear camo pattern pants or shirts/jackets. I personally like plain colored BDUs because of the belt loops are big, and one is positioned just right for me on the right side to keep my holster from sliding (by looping my "tactical" belt through it). I do wish for someone to make the BDUs with an integrated knee pad pocket inside (with removable inserts) so that we don't have to wear cumbersome knee pads like those SWAT guys. Kurt, that rack full of black carbines just got more politically-incorrect with my tigerstriped mouse gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I think we could do a to make our black rifles more aesthetically pleasing by switching to colored JPs and we could regulate the mag color to be either pink or violet. We could do this under the guise of increasing the safety factor of the sport. That way we could be less offensive to the media. I happened to be in Nebreska in September and November of 2001. Everybody; men, women, children, heck even some dogs were wearing camos. It was the uniform of the day during hunting season.Kids are wearing camos to jr and high school. I think our sport has over-reacted-the mountain out of the mole hill syndrome. Luckily ROs do not seem to be enforcing the anti-paramilitary attire look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 kurtm, You might want to consider switching to decaf. I merely posted information I had heard concerning a rule. No support or dissent of said rule was implied. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 OK, I'n not going to sweat it. However, if I see again the example we once had, I'll say something to him: This guy showed up head to toe in cammies, but no two patterns matched. Hat, shirts, trousers, vest, all different. It was the upside down knife taped to his web gear that sent my RO's into giggle fits. And no, he wasn't a recent graduate of uncle sams trade school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 JHGTYRE: I never though that you did support the rule. I certainly ment no heat in my reply. I was responding to the rule. I bet the upside down knife guy Pat talked about never reappeared! Your opinion of the rule is probably correct, it is to discourage "wannabes"and to portray a "politicaly correct" image, but I contend that it is self correcting. As for decaf..... I don't drink coffee.......I main line it! Mr. D I like the idea of a pocket for pads, just like moto cross pants!! I bet if we talked to Brigade Quarter Master about it they might do something, lets try!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 No harm, no foul. There should be an excpetion to the rule though to let young women wearing those tiny little camo, spaghetti strap, tops shoot in any match they want! -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I just remembered, at my kids school there is a cammo day were everyone gets to wear cammo!!! LOL If we're going to have classes based on clothing. white trash : wife beater and torn jeans from the 80's optional cigarette give away t shirt cholo: pendelton and pocket chain with D.O.C. blue jeans hillbilly: worn out cammo t shirt carhart jeans or overalls gunshop commando: all black from the latest S.O.F. article, factory killa hp ammo, extra,guns, knifes, canteen, stories from places he's never been or done. cant shoot worth a s$%t TGO wanabee: fake team uniform, paper gm, whines about the squad, talks endlessly about the best powder, primer, bullet or whatever, always has the fastest time but disreguards the mikes, well they're perfect doubles,...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 See, everyone loves to wear camo. My nieces and nephews love their camos. It's sure beats the "gang banger" droopy pants that are 10 sizes too big. I'm from Wisconsin, so bright orange and mossy oak camo items are everywhere. It's the socially acceptable norm for the cheddarheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Kelly, Limited - No pockets, Blue Tactical - 2 pockets, black or sage green Open - Unlimited pockets, any color or a Kilt Wear what is comfortable and allows you to move, climb a rope, shoot in different positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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