Going faster with PCC

[Vanniek71]

Older thread but wanted to reply:

 

I just shot my first ever match with a PCC and took 5th overall. (it was a major match which made 5th pretty cool lol) Not bad for never running a long gun in a comp...BUT

 

I noticed I was shooting iron sight speed and not really seeing what I needed to and being way too cautious (I only had 2 D's for a 300+ round match). From my video I noticed a few things - my exits were ok, but my running was too cautious as well (I wasn't sure how the gun would behave in a flat out sprint and I didn't want to 180). The over the shoulder or beside the shoulder is way more efficient than dropping the gun down to run with it, and I was delayed in my shooting in new positions requiring the dot instead of seeing dot on target and letting rounds fly. And finally I was dot focused on some targets - an M class PCC guy helped me out - you should be target focused when shooting a dot and bring that to the target instead of sight (or dot in this case) focused. 

 

All stuff of course I need to work on, but the PCC experiment was fun as hell and I can see myself doing it more often.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Vanniek71

[perttime]

Look at one of the top IPSC Rifle shooters move:

 

 

There's many ways to move with a rifle, depending on where exactly you are going. Sometimes letting go with your weak hand works great, when you can better use it for balance sprinting hard or changing position.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by perttime

[Flatland Shooter]

 

Those Hungarians sure like going prone and shooting white no shoot targets.

 

[stick]

Let me ask this.  What are you "Seeing" on the targets?  Are you shooting waiting and looking at the shot before you fire another shot?  Based off your "C's"  you hardly had any.  Yes "A's" are good, but not if you're wasting time putting two in the "A" zone.  Don't be afraid to get Alpha Charlies on targets.  I would definitely work on double taps.  A good drill would be something like El Prez where you have multiple targets to shoot quickly.  I would also look at your splits between your first and second shot on target.

[perttime]

22 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

Those Hungarians sure like going prone and shooting white no shoot targets.

 

 

IPSC gives matches the option to choose target color. Just has to be consistent throughout. Some feel that a target that is not exactly the same color as the berm makes sense.

 

With rifles, prone sometimes makes sense, just so you can hit the more distant targets more quickly.

[perttime]

On 6/8/2018 at 4:18 PM, perttime said:

... Some feel that a target that is not exactly the same color as the berm makes sense.

...

 

I went to a 100 meter range with my rifle yesterday and used the tan side of the target. The main reason I found and hit the target was the lighter colored tape that I had used for patching previously. Otherwise the target blended perfectly with the sand of the backstop.

[vgdvc]

On 10/27/2017 at 3:40 PM, 1911builder said:

PCC=shooting on the move 

This^. I realize this is an older thread but dug it up when searching for how to improve my overall PCC scores since I'm relatively new to it. I shoot high A in Lmited/Open and I'm realizing a lot of the principles that I try to utilize as far as shooting while entering a position and shooting while exiting a position with a pistol,in addition to shooting and engaging whenever I can accurately on the move, dramatically improve my overall finish with the GM and M PCC shooters. Also rehearsing when and how to smoothly transition into weak shoulder/weak hand when prepping for a stage keeps times down. Where I shoot it's as if they purposely try to screw the PCC guys with extremely difficult leans since there are still some animosity by some of having a "rifle at a pistol match". Just makes it all that much more fun!

[vgdvc]

On 10/27/2017 at 3:40 PM, 1911builder said:

PCC=shooting on the move 

This^. I realize this is an older thread but dug it up when searching for how to improve my overall PCC scores since I'm relatively new to it. I shoot high A in Lmited/Open and I'm realizing a lot of the principles that I try to utilize as far as shooting while entering a position and shooting while exiting a position with a pistol,in addition to shooting and engaging whenever I can accurately on the move, dramatically improve my overall finish with the GM and M PCC shooters. Also rehearsing when and how to smoothly transition into weak shoulder/weak hand when prepping for a stage keeps times down. Where I shoot it's as if they purposely try to screw the PCC guys with extremely difficult leans since there are still some animosity by some of having a "rifle at a pistol match". Just makes it all that much more fun!

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

This^. I realize this is an older thread but dug it up when searching for how to improve my overall PCC scores since I'm relatively new to it. I shoot high A in Lmited/Open and I'm realizing a lot of the principles that I try to utilize as far as shooting while entering a position and shooting while exiting a position with a pistol,in addition to shooting and engaging whenever I can accurately on the move, dramatically improve my overall finish with the GM and M PCC shooters. Also rehearsing when and how to smoothly transition into weak shoulder/weak hand when prepping for a stage keeps times down. Where I shoot it's as if they purposely try to screw the PCC guys with extremely difficult leans since there are still some animosity by some of having a "rifle at a pistol match". Just makes it all that much more fun!

 

Hard leans have always been part of USPSA. You don't want the whole sport to get easier just because leans are hard with a PCC do you?

[vgdvc]

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Hard leans have always been part of USPSA. You don't want the whole sport to get easier just because leans are hard with a PCC do you?

 

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Hard leans have always been part of USPSA. You don't want the whole sport to get easier just because leans are hard with a PCC do you?

 

[vgdvc]

12 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Hard leans have always been part of USPSA. You don't want the whole sport to get easier just because leans are hard with a PCC do you?

Sorry about the prior double up messages my phone screen keeps flipping around. ABSOLUTELY NOT... I would no way like to have a USPSA match redirected in favor or neagative bias of PCC. I can only speak from experience in the a few stage designers saying how the PCC guys "will have a hell of a time dealing with this" or " this should get some of them dq'd". Same way I wouldn't want to have pistol shooters trying to deal with 20+ yard stars and 30+yard plate racks. As mentioned before it's all in good fun, no one's playing to win a Cadillac. I enjoy the difficulty of running a "rifle" through a pistol designed stage. Where else do you get to practice maneuvering a long gun in such tight quarters.

 

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

5 hours ago, vgdvc said:

Sorry about the prior double up messages my phone screen keeps flipping around. ABSOLUTELY NOT... I would no way like to have a USPSA match redirected in favor or neagative bias of PCC. I can only speak from experience in the a few stage designers saying how the PCC guys "will have a hell of a time dealing with this" or " this should get some of them dq'd". Same way I wouldn't want to have pistol shooters trying to deal with 20+ yard stars and 30+yard plate racks. As mentioned before it's all in good fun, no one's playing to win a Cadillac. I enjoy the difficulty of running a "rifle" through a pistol designed stage. Where else do you get to practice maneuvering a long gun in such tight quarters.

 

 

 

 

PCC was pitched as if it wasn't going to require changing the game. Making the shots overly difficult just so it'll be a challenge with a rifle would be changing the game wouldn't it?

 

Certainly guys shouldn't be trying to get others DQ'd. I've not run into that. The closest I've heard was something like this.

 

"hey how is PCC going to do this?"

"Shoot.....f-it,..... I guess they'll have to figure it out"

 

This was likely followed by some jokes, can't recall. But, this was after the stage was build and on the ground maybe a hour before hammer down. A prop manipulation that had been done at this club in the past suddenly seemed like problem. We have some good PCC shooters in the area, no one DQ'd so I guess they figured it out. I didn't get to see how they did it.

 

 

[vgdvc]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

PCC was pitched as if it wasn't going to require changing the game. Making the shots overly difficult just so it'll be a challenge with a rifle would be changing the game wouldn't it?

. The closest I've heard was something like this.

 

"hey how is PCC going to do this?"

"Shoot.....f-it,..... I guess they'll have to figure it out"

 

 

 

 

Yup, as mentioned priory I agree with  the above. I really do enjoy learning how to safely,efficiently and quickly move a longarm through a course designed primarily for a pistol. I do believe it is generally a disadvantage having a PCC instead of a pistol in a close quarters course which again is what makes it interesting and fun. From a competitive standpoint that only matters if you are looking for a high overall comparison. The reality is PCC competes against PCC which is why I commented on this topic of conversation relating to the original OP of what skills to improve on to be competitive in the PCC division.

[elguapo]

The OP is fooling himself if he thinks he's getting killed on time alone.  Based on the results he posted his points suck too.

 

Everyone above him not only smoked him on time but also on points scored.

 

Self-analysis needs to be brutally honest and this one is not.

[Smithcity]

14 minutes ago, elguapo said:

The OP is fooling himself if he thinks he's getting killed on time alone.  Based on the results he posted his points suck too.

 

Everyone above him not only smoked him on time but also on points scored.

 

Self-analysis needs to be brutally honest and this one is not.

Arent match points a function of time? I.e. you can shoot all alphas really slow and only earn 50% of the match points. The op is right in the observation that he is executing the stages substantially slower than the guys winning it.

[elguapo]

nm

Edited May 3, 2019 by elguapo

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

Ok so the interesting thing is with PCC shooting minor you are still capable of shooting super high hit factors. Why is this? Because you can shoot more accurately, more quickly. You should be able to rip on it pretty accurately. Not to say treat it like 3 gun, and just put two in the brown, because as soon as you start throwing too many charlies you're gonna be down match points. 
I would look at the most obvious problem you've got first. Which is the time. Without seeing you shoot a stage i cant say for sure. But most often its the time spent between shooting positions thats a stage killer. And this, I think this comes down to confidence in your stage plan. If you're not confident then you're not going to move with speed and confidence into and out of your shooting positions. You need to be more aggressive. I practice active visualization a lot and make sure i know my stage plan and visualize it as many times as i can before my turn on a stage. Even if i dont think i need to keep visualizing it, i do. Up until the time before i shoot. So i can explode into and out of positions as aggressively as possible. And if i know my stage plan really well, i can just worry about the shooting part.

I would practice coming into position, getting the rifle shouldered as you come into position and then engage targets. And then quickly breaking the gun off your shoulder and coming into another position. A drill you could do is a variation of Ben Stoegers Skipping Rope drill. Where you just have a stick or rope on the ground. Have the rifle shouldered and pointing at a target, break it off shoulder and explosively move over the stick while simultaneously shouldering it again and re aim at the target. Itll help you get used to it. Sometimes i go over the shoulder with the stock, and sometimes i suck it in under my arm pit (like if its super tight and there is a wall right in front of me). 

 

As for the moving efficiently part that goes without saying. If you feel comfortable shooting on the move on some portions then do it. You need to. But that depends on the distance and size of target and your capabilities as a shooter. 

 

 

I use a Romeo 4 with the 65 MOA circle. Its a great optic for this sort of stuff. Because all my eye and brain needs to say is basically it looks symmetrical on target and there's equal light on either side of the circle reticle. The 510C holosun is a good optic as well. 

 

Im sure some dudes here would like to see some video of some stages. If you can video yourself and then someone else thats significantly faster doing the same stage i can cut it so its on the same screen and you can watch them run the stage, and then you running the stage simultaneously so you can really really see where youre losing time. 

 

[07yzryder]

On 3/27/2017 at 3:50 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

How to move with a PCC:

 

He just won nationals. Study up!

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSu1aXNpFlKbxLs7Pk0U0qQ

 

The main thing I see him doing differently than most is snapping the stock up over his shoulder instantly as he gets ready to exit, and exploding left or right. Most guys take a lumbering step back, whereas he's already gone.

 

watching his vids now. Ive shot local matches with marco who took second at the magnus cup behind him. Watching him shoot in person is insane. I think double taps i can hang but watching his transistions, and how explosive the movements are, that is where my i get killed.

 

one other thing i notice is i try to always have 2 hands on the rifle for some reason, looks like im loosing speed there where i have the strength to run with it in my primary hand