Broncman Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Definitely not knocking him in ANYWAY. If you make Grand Master, you are there for a reason! Still seems odd pistol vs rifle... Again my opinion does not buy anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 15 minutes ago, Broncman said: Still seems odd pistol vs rifle... You are missing the fact that it not pistol vs rifle, that is why there are separate divisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 First, as usual, I am not a PCC hater. Hell, I bought one even though I doubt I'll shoot it any time soon as I came to USPSA to shoot pistols. But I have to wonder how long everybody will remain content if rifles keep coming out on top. Sure, we have always made the argument that we don't truly compete outside our divisions but the same won't hold true for completely different gun types in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Just now, Sarge said: First, as usual, I am not a PCC hater. Hell, I bought one even though I doubt I'll shoot it any time soon as I came to USPSA to shoot pistols. But I have to wonder how long everybody will remain content if rifles keep coming out on top. Sure, we have always made the argument that we don't truly compete outside our divisions but the same won't hold true for completely different gun types in my opinion So do you really think open pistols and revolvers are remotely the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncman Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 So, is there a match winner or are there multiple winners? Pardon me for my ignorance, I have been searching and trying to figure all this out. I understand the division winners etc, but is there not an Overall Winner? Sarge, I also came to USPSA specifically for pistol. I also have a PCC build underway as well. Guess my misconception was that USPSA was a pistol sport, then you have 3 Gun , etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Broncman said: So, is there a match winner or are there multiple winners? Pardon me for my ignorance, I have been searching and trying to figure all this out. I understand the division winners etc, but is there not an Overall Winner? Sarge, I also came to USPSA specifically for pistol. I also have a PCC build underway as well. Guess my misconception was that USPSA was a pistol sport, then you have 3 Gun , etc. Much hand wringing over nothing. If the stages are typical Nats stages, Open will beat PCC by 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 44 minutes ago, RJH said: So do you really think open pistols and revolvers are remotely the same? In that they are handguns? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Sarge said: In that they are handguns? Yes. In that they are remotely equal on a course of fire? According to overall results open guns and PCCs are much closer to being equal than open guns and revolvers. I think the problem lies with the perception that all the other divisions are equal because they are handguns, when they are not even close. No SS, revolver, production, etc. shooters that I know of do all this crying over the fact that open shooters wipe the floor with them at every match in the overalls, so I can only assume that all the crying is coming from open shooters because the might not be on the top of basically every match from now on. I shoot SS and production mainly, and it matters little to me who is at the top of the overalls, they are just for fun anyway (well maybe less fun for open shooters nowadays) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 From the small sampling in my area, it's open shooters that are trying PCC. And only for the simple reason, it's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, OPENB said: From the small sampling in my area, it's open shooters that are trying PCC. And only for the simple reason, it's fun. I resemble that remark. If it were not for 3 gun, I wouldn't need to ever pull my open guns out of the safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, OPENB said: From the small sampling in my area, it's open shooters that are trying PCC. And only for the simple reason, it's fun. As I reread my post, I realized that it looks like I was trying to be disparaging to open shooters, I was not. I have several friends that are open shooters, and they are fine (like everyone else). They would seem to be the only people really affected in the overalls by pcc shooters though, as generally speaking they will be the ones who might get knocked out of the top spot in a match. I think Shadyscott was right, much ado over nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 PCCs are allowed in USPSA matches? 5 hours ago, Broncman said: So, is there a match winner or are there multiple winners? Pardon me for my ignorance, I have been searching and trying to figure all this out. I understand the division winners etc, but is there not an Overall Winner? No, there are only division winners. So yes there are multiple winners at each match, one for each division. Combined results aren't official results. If you look at results on the USPSA site they don't have combined, only by division. In Practiscore use the 2nd dropdown box to look at results by division instead of combined. So if you don't shoot PCC then it has no affect on your score/placement in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanatos903 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Looking at the match booklet for Optics Nationals, it looks like there's a whole lot of shooting through ports, and a little bit of shooting around barricades (although that's hard to judge). I personally think that a traditional Open shooter is going to have the advantage over PCC shooters, but we'll see. There are enough far targets and difficult partials that might be easier for PCC shooters that they could make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 11 hours ago, RJH said: As I reread my post, I realized that it looks like I was trying to be disparaging to open shooters, I was not. I have several friends that are open shooters, and they are fine (like everyone else). They would seem to be the only people really affected in the overalls by pcc shooters though, as generally speaking they will be the ones who might get knocked out of the top spot in a match. I think Shadyscott was right, much ado over nothing RJH, I took no offense, just observing. Like most, I do look at the overalls to gauge how I or a buddy in a different division did in comparison. I really pay more attention to the other open shooters. If I shoot 85% of the local GM, as an A, I'm happy. We need to remind ourselves that there are 8 individual matches occurring simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, OPENB said: We need to remind ourselves that there are 8 individual matches occurring simultaneously. This exactly. There is a type of car race, I cant remember which one, that has about four different types of cars on the track at the same time, all of which are competing against only the same type of car. This is basically what we are doing in USPSA, I don't understand the issues people have with PCCs, or any other division for that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncman Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 The issue I guess I when you look at Practiscore match results. EVEN if you break out the divisions and classes, the score is STILL a percentage of the individual who has the best OVERALL score. Not knocking anyone who shoots PCC in anyway. I am just new to USPSA and always thought it was pistols only. To me, it looks like USPSA is riding the popularity of 3 Gun to possibly keep more shooters. If that is the way they decide to go that is fine. Directions change all the time in Competition Sports. Been through a lot of changes in the NRA Long Range F class and FTR side of things. Will PCC be the death of pistols in USPSA? No, don't think so. Open was not the death of revolvers. Still see them but sure this sport will continue to evolve. That keeps it alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, Broncman said: The issue I guess I when you look at Practiscore match results. EVEN if you break out the divisions and classes, the score is STILL a percentage of the individual who has the best OVERALL score. This is incorrect. When you look at only a division, you will see that the winner of each division will be at 100%. Divisions scores are only based on shooters in that division and are the official results, overall scores are based on all shooters regardless of division, and are unofficial, just for fun, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncman Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Apologies! You are correct. Went back and finally got Practiscore figured out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old3GNR Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I joined USPSA in 1994 shooting a Colt Gold Cup. I then "Upgraded" to a comped 1911 .45. Bought an EGW Open race gun in 1996 and an EGW Limited gun in 1998. Shot both extensively until 2010 when I let my USPSA lapse and I concentrated on 3-gun. I recently bought a JP GMR-13 PCC and just renewed my USPSA membership. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Welcome back! You'll have fun! I shot a classifier match yesterday, I wanted to get classed in CO. Shot with one PCCer, and I was jealous. I'll be PCCing rest of the season. Just have to decide SBR Colt-style, or 16" Glock-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Broncman "I am just new to USPSA and always thought it was pistols only" Why yes, you are, very new...... Why don't you get at least a dozen matches under your belt before going off on stuff you don't know about. I don't understand Practiscore! PCC is not fair! wawawawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Broncman said: ......... To me, it looks like USPSA is riding the popularity of 3 Gun to possibly keep more shooters. If that is the way they decide to go that is fine. .......... That keeps it alive. If that's part of the plan, it worked. Once I started shooting 3 gun, it was my sport of preference. On any given weekend, if there was a 3 gun match and a USPSA match, I went 3 gunning. This year I've started out with PCC. USPSA has me back into the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 21 hours ago, rowdyb said: What's gonna happen when a PCC wins overall at Optics Nats this weekend? Will the world stop? there's no such thing as an 'overall' at a multi-division nationals event. personally I just ignore PCC. I do look at overall results because SS is a small division, so I measure myself against the limited and open shooters that are close to me in the results. If there are rifle shooters also shooting a rifle match at the same time, I just skip over them. It would be nice for practiscore to just have a way to remove an entire division from the results view, just to save me some arithmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 hours ago, Broncman said: So, is there a match winner or are there multiple winners? Pardon me for my ignorance, I have been searching and trying to figure all this out. I understand the division winners etc, but is there not an Overall Winner? There is only an overall winner if it is not an open or pcc shooter. No one cares if someone in a division that has significant advantages has the best score, but if it's a limited or production or SS shooter, then he is the overall 'winner', and all the rifle shooters and laser-gun shooters have to carry his bag back to the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 15 hours ago, RJH said: No SS, revolver, production, etc. shooters that I know of do all this crying over the fact that open shooters wipe the floor with them at every match in the overalls, that's because we're good at math. If an open shooter is only 20% ahead of an SS shooter, then the SS shooter won and gets bragging rights. 10% for Limited shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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