My "new" IDPA Franken-foglio

[djb25]

Just thought everyone might like to take a look at the pistol I pieced together for IDPA competitions. I have a large frame limited pro that I usually shoot, but it just barely fits in the IDPA box. You kind of have to force it in there, and I worry that I'm going to be DQ'd at some point. 

 

I had bought a bare competition frame a few years ago that was coated in a peeling black paint. I also picked up a 9mm long side conversion for it. I got as far as cerakoting the frame, but never really went beyond that point. I recently decided that I needed to finish the damn thing, so after a bit of digging around in my parts stash, I came up with the following pistol. 

 

It's an older small frame competition model with a brand new 9mm longslide conversion. Limited Pro extended safety and an extended mag release from an older competition model. EGW hammer and sear, factory SAO trigger. 

 

With my custom-made acetal polymer guide rod, the pistol weighs 42 oz with a mec-gar 17 round magazine. Everything internal has been polished to death, and the trigger pull is right around 2 lbs with a 15 lbs Wolff hammer spring. Even better, the small frame pistol is roughly 3/8" shorter than my large-frame limited pro, so it fits nicely in the IDPA box. 

 

I also have a Henning flat trigger on order (short reach). 

 

I've been very tempted to go to a CZ Shadow, as I prefer the smaller grip of the CZ pistols. However, the slightly deeper radius cut of the small frame Tanfoglio competition frame is quite comfortable for me. I definitely prefer it over the large frame models, which surprises me, as they don't seem to be that different. 

 

[IronArcher]

Nice!


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[T3P_Guy]

Quick question about the 9mm longslide conversion, is that a 4.75" slide?

[Joeyxbat]

Love those grips!

[djb25]

1 hour ago, T3P_Guy said:

Quick question about the 9mm longslide conversion, is that a 4.75" slide?

 

Yep, it's a 4.75" barrel. Same length as a limited pro, but it doesn't have the fancy polygonal rifling.

[T3P_Guy]

Just now, djb25 said:

 

Yep, it's a 4.75" barrel. Same length as a limited pro, but it doesn't have the fancy polygonal rifling.

 

Thanks sir, I've been meaning to call EAA about it since their website couldn't possibly be more vague in the description of what constitutes a "long slide" to them.

 

Nice gun btw  

[djb25]

Thanks! 

 

If I were you I would watch GunBroker and eBay. The prices for the conversions from EAA have become insane. They pop up for much more reasonable prices from time to time. Or check out the classifieds here. 

[lksyotas]

Looks real sharp!  What Cerakote color is the frame?  I'm thinking about redoing my Stock 3 in Cerakote and usually use Graphite Black but might change it up for this one. 

[djb25]

I think the color is tungsten, but I'm not 100 percent sure. I'll see if I can figure it out over the weekend. 

[IronArcher]

 
Yep, it's a 4.75" barrel. Same length as a limited pro, but it doesn't have the fancy polygonal rifling.

Could you drop in the barrel from your Lim Pro if you wanted the ploy rifling?
Or would you need to move the whole top end over?


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[waktasz]

holes in frame..illegal.

 

Cover them with grip tape.

[MemphisMechanic]

20 hours ago, waktasz said:

holes in frame..illegal.

 

Cover them with grip tape.

 

Theyre in a spot that's going to be rubbing on the holster. Don't think grip tape will work unless he likes a LOT of holster tension.

Edited March 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[djb25]

On 3/3/2017 at 6:11 PM, waktasz said:

holes in frame..illegal.

 

Cover them with grip tape.

Is this an old rule? 

 

I'm not seeing anything in the rule book that would make those screw holes illegal. 

[Balakay]

On 3/4/2017 at 2:18 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Theyre in a spot that's going to be rubbing on the holster. Don't think grip tape will work unless he likes a LOT of holster tension.

I have a small piece of skate tape on every 1911 and 2011 that I own in this location as an index point for my left thumb. It does absolutely nothing to change holster tension

[waktasz]

5 hours ago, djb25 said:

Is this an old rule? 

 

I'm not seeing anything in the rule book that would make those screw holes illegal. 

 

If it's not on the list of allowed mods, it's illegal.

[himurax13]

A witness Match Elite is fine for IDPA...

[djb25]

8 hours ago, waktasz said:

 

If it's not on the list of allowed mods, it's illegal.

 

Oh. The screw holes aren't a modification (as far as I know, anyway). I have another small frame with the same holes. The older ones have three holes, and the later ones have four. 

 

They still make basically the same pistol, but I don't think EAA imports it.

[johnbu]

Ahhhh, European small frame? Yeah, we don't see all the variations ovet here.

[hav3n]

14 hours ago, himurax13 said:

A witness Match Elite is fine for IDPA...

 

I believe it's too heavy out of the box.

 

EDIT: At least mine is and it's .40 so it should be even lighter than a 9mm.

Edited March 8, 2017 by hav3n

[waktasz]

13 hours ago, djb25 said:

 

Oh. The screw holes aren't a modification (as far as I know, anyway). I have another small frame with the same holes. The older ones have three holes, and the later ones have four. 

 

They still make basically the same pistol, but I don't think EAA imports it.

 

IDPA views features and modifications the same way. I could be wrong and the rules have changed a lot recently...I'd just get a ruling on it before shooting a major match

 

[himurax13]

3 hours ago, hav3n said:

 
I believe it's too heavy out of the box.
 
EDIT: At least mine is and it's .40 so it should be even lighter than a 9mm.

 

 

Mods, please delete this duplicate post.
 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by himurax13

[himurax13]

4 hours ago, hav3n said:

 
I believe it's too heavy out of the box.
 
EDIT: At least mine is and it's .40 so it should be even lighter than a 9mm.

 

 

My .40 was just a touch over 42 ounces with an empty mag. The 9mm was over by like a quarter of an ounce.

 

The beavertail is less pronounced than the higher end Tanfoglio models so it fits in the box easier.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by himurax13

[djb25]

On 3/8/2017 at 11:15 AM, waktasz said:

 

IDPA views features and modifications the same way. I could be wrong and the rules have changed a lot recently...I'd just get a ruling on it before shooting a major match

 

I appreciate the advice, but I have no idea how the screw holes in the frame could cause a problem - at least not under the current rules. 

 

It's an ESP gun, because it is SAO. It isn't a weird gray-market pistol or anything, it's just an older EAA Witness model. The model I referred to above is just the current version of my pistol. As far as I am aware, the current model isn't imported to the US. 

 

I suppose there could be a problem in SSP as far as meeting the minimum production requirements, but it isn't an SSP gun, so that's not really an issue.  

 

I don't want to turn this into a lengthy IDPA rules discussion, but I also don't want to leave this out there for someone else to come across in the future. That's how we end up with people saying, "Oh, yeah, I read that you can't have screw holes in the frame of an IDPA gun." 

 

HOWEVER - since this discussion came up, I took a closer look at the frame of the pistol. Mainly because there is a weird mark near the front screw hole. It turns out I was wrong anyway - the mounting holes in this gun were added at some point in its life. Well, more accurately, the mounting holes were moved. The frame originally had three screw holes on each side. At some point someone filled the original holes and drilled and tapped new holes on the left side.  I'm not sure how I didn't notice this when I cerakoted the frame, but there you go. The holes are also further back than on the factory guns. 

 

Ultimately, though, the pistol has a EGW sear and hammer, so there's no firing pin block. That's pretty clearly not IDPA legal... 

 

[waktasz]

This is a list of ALL allowed modifications/features for an ESP gun. If holes in the frame aren't on the list, they aren't legal. I don't really care either way, I'm just telling you what the rules say and trying to prevent you from getting nailed at a major match. IDPA sort of has a history of that.

 

Quote

8.2.2.2  ESP Permitted Features and Modifications (Inclusive list): 

A.  Sights may be changed to another notch and post type. Slides may be machined to accept different style sights. 
B.  Grips may be changed provided they do not weigh more than 2.00 oz. more than the factory standard weight for 
that model. 
C.  A slip-on grip sock and/or grip tape, skateboard tape, etc. may be used. 
D.  Robar-style grip reduction. 
E.  Action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained. 
F.  Reliability work. 
G.  Aftermarket extractors and pins may be used. 
H.  Internal accuracy work. 
I.  Replacement of barrel with one of factory configuration that uses a stock or non-stock cartridge. 
J.  Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the magazine well. 
K.  Aftermarket triggers and trigger work that result in the trigger being forward or rearward from the stock trigger 
position. 
L.  Externally visible trigger over travel stops. 
M.  Hammer and other trigger action parts to enhance trigger pull. 
N.  Checkering, serrating, and stippling. 
O.  Reshape trigger guard. 
P.  Extended and/or ambidextrous thumb safety. 
Q.  Extended beavertail grip safety. 
R.  Ambidextrous or right side magazine releases. 
S.  Extended, trimmed, and/or ambidextrous slide releases. 
T.  Heavy or cone style barrels on firearms with barrel lengths of 4.25” or less. 
U.  Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel. 
V.  Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design. 
W.  Modification of the magazine well and add-on well extensions. 
X.  Custom finishes and engraving may be applied. 
Y.  Aftermarket slide cover plates. 
Z.  Slides with front cocking serrations, tri-top, carry melts, and high power cuts. 
AA. Grip tang extensions or beavertails 
BB. Swenson style thumb shields and frame mounted thumb shields. 
CC. Aftermarket safeties. 
DD. Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used provided they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.50 
oz. over the same capacity factory magazine. 
EE. Magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping, texturing, or adding bumper pads provided that they do not 
make the magazine weigh more than 1.50 oz. over the same capacity factory magazine. 
FF.  Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements.

Edited March 13, 2017 by waktasz

[Racinready300ex]

Put some grip tape over the holes, no one will know they're there.