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9x45

Amateur Gunsmithing

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If you have a firearm on you, you should have a tourniquet on you.

 

Since you're more likely to be shot by someone else's firearm anyway, you should probably just have a T.  I use a belt that has holes all the way down and can be used as a T.

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I don't think she should have posted that without first consulting an attorney? This is why many won't buy guns, even on this forum!

 

every shooter carry a tourniquet? Maybe put some in stage box but not every shooter needs one.

Edited by Sarge

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I carry a tourniquet and an Israeli bandage in the "bottle holder" of my range bag. Always facing the line, easy to access. I sure wish her a full and speedy recovery.

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This unfortunate event happened due to several levels of complacency. Hopefully this serves as a sobering reminder to everyone that doing bad trigger work can lead to tragic results. The same could be said for not taking ownership in ensuring that your firearm and its safeties are functioning properly.

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I've seen the Burwell Trigger Job Powerpoint that has probably encouraged a lot of hobbyists to try and improve their M&P triggers.  From what I remember, it involved changing the angle on the back end of the sear.  I still don't see how this particular event happened while the gun was still in the holster as she indicates.  Unless of course someone altered/removed the striker block, allowing the sear to release the striker without the trigger being pulled (which is what I think Pat was getting at earlier in this thread).

Edited by tyler2you

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Mark said in the comment section of the youtube video that the strike block had been modified as well. 

 

if you are familiar with the M&P sear and striker engagement it is very easy to tell on the modified sear in the video that the engagement angle hand been modified to the point that the striker could slip off of the back of the sear. 

 

if the striker block had been left alone it would just result in a dead trigger. but the combination of the two makes for a situation that could cause this. 

 

If you watch the video where she is shooting and having to rack the slide I would be willing to bet that it was because of a dead trigger because the sear was not engaging the striker. 

 

and to the other topic I carry a tourniquet in my range bag as well. 

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That makes sense.  I have heard of folks shortening the striker block lifter due to timing issues with some guns.  What a terrible thing to happen due to some hobbyist gunsmithing.  Based on the number of folks out there modifying their guns with little understanding of how things interact, I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents.  I guess it's good to get things like this out in the open so people are aware of the dangers.

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1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

This unfortunate event happened due to several levels of complacency. Hopefully this serves as a sobering reminder to everyone that doing bad trigger work can lead to tragic results. The same could be said for not taking ownership in ensuring that your firearm and its safeties are functioning properly.

 

How would you go about function checking an M&P striker block? The only checks I do on it are when the slide's separated from the frame. In terms of timing related to the sear, or just sear slippage as what Cammy experienced, I'm drawing a blank. Give the gun a stout whack with a hammer and make sure the striker doesn't fall?

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I wasn't there, but as per the video it was crappy weather. There have been several instances of things in the trigger guard as people holstered making the gun go off upon movement. Was it repeatable? As in were they able to make the gun go off again without touching the trigger? A lot of accusations, not a lot of facts. I don't mean to say this wasn't the case, but in this group I'm sure I'm not alone. I've heard of a lot of instances of the striker block not moving, but not this. I know enough to know I don't know everything and that strange things happen all the time though. It'd be good to really find out what happened so that these things can be avoided in the future.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

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53 minutes ago, thermobollocks said:

 

How would you go about function checking an M&P striker block? The only checks I do on it are when the slide's separated from the frame. In terms of timing related to the sear, or just sear slippage as what Cammy experienced, I'm drawing a blank. Give the gun a stout whack with a hammer and make sure the striker doesn't fall?

 

You start by performing the function check with the slide off. Then you put the slide back on the gun, rack it and look in through rear of the slide where the slide meets the frame. You will be able to see the sear and striker engagement along with the striker block to trigger bar engagement. Rack the slide so the striker is cocked. Then observe the striker block to trigger bar engagement as you start to pull the trigger back. The striker block should NOT be pushed up by the trigger bar until you start pulling the trigger and it should be fully pushed up by the time the sear pulls off of the striker.

 

If the trigger pretravel is dramatically reduced it will create a scenario where the trigger bar is pushing up on the striker block when the striker is cocked and the trigger isn't being pulled. This basically deactivates the striker block safety because the pretravel is set incorrectly. In talking with Mark P about this specific incident the striker block failure was due to this exact scenario where the pretravel was reduced to the point of disengaging the striker block prematurely. Then the sear to striker engagement was modified to create an unreliable engagement. Any slide to frame movement (Such as shifting around in the holster) could lead to the striker to sear engagement to fail and then you have an AD with a bullet in the leg because the striker block is also disabled.

 

Shooters are cheap asses and think that paying a gunsmith to do a trigger job is a waste of money. They think that trigger parts are like Lego pieces that should snap together without the possibility of screwing up. Look at all of the "Trigger Issue" threads on this forum alone from "Shade Tree Mechanics" hacking at their own guns trying to do a trigger job and screwing it up. If you don't understand the basic functionality of the trigger components to start off with, how do you expect to be able to do a reliable and SAFE trigger job when throwing random aftermarket trigger parts in the gun? I use to try to help people solve their "Shade Tree Mechanic" trigger job issues on this forum but stopped long ago because I don't want the liability of it. The way I see it is if you are not mechanically inclined enough to figure this stuff out on your own, then you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. This may sound like a harsh statement to make, but as we have seen in this example, f*#king up trigger jobs WILL result in people getting hurt. Do you really want to risk taking a bullet to save some money on getting a trigger job done? I hope not. But life is full of hard lessons that people seem to like learning the hard way over and over again.    

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 f*#king up trigger jobs WILL result in people getting hurt.  Yup, we see it all the time.

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Shooters are cheap asses and think that paying a gunsmith to do a trigger job is a waste of money. They think that trigger parts are like Lego pieces that should snap together without the possibility of screwing up. Look at all of the "Trigger Issue" threads on this forum alone from "Shade Tree Mechanics" hacking at their own guns trying to do a trigger job and screwing it up. If you don't understand the basic functionality of the trigger components to start off with, how do you expect to be able to do a reliable and SAFE trigger job when throwing random aftermarket trigger parts in the gun? I use to try to help people solve their "Shade Tree Mechanic" trigger job issues on this forum but stopped long ago because I don't want the liability of it. The way I see it is if you are not mechanically inclined enough to figure this stuff out on your own, then you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. This may sound like a harsh statement to make, but as we have seen in this example, f*#king up trigger jobs WILL result in people getting hurt. Do you really want to risk taking a bullet to save some money on getting a trigger job done? I hope not. But life is full of hard lessons that people seem to like learning the hard way over and over again.    


Well said Charlie.

I've had some interesting work come over my bench for repair...

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There may be one more element. It seems like M&Ps are pretty much single action guns. That is, the firing mechanism is fully cocked (energized) by the movement of the slide, unlike, for example, a Glock. So, this was a single action gun with a poorly reprofiled sear and a safety or two disabled.

 

Kudos to Cameon for sharing this so that we all may learn. I wish her a full recovery. Thanks to everyone who provided insight on the failure.

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Thanks for sharing this and all the very good comments. New shooters like me needs to see this.

Edited by Joeyxbat
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