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Thinking of trying open


3djedi

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On 2/17/2017 at 8:44 PM, troupe said:

 There is a reason all of your top shooters are shooting long pistols. 

 

Except that isn't necessarily true.  Most of the Akai's are shorty, the SV IMM is a short gun.  7 of the top 16 were short guns at FLOP this last weekend

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29 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

 

Except that isn't necessarily true.  Most of the Akai's are shorty, the SV IMM is a short gun.  7 of the top 16 were short guns at FLOP this last weekend

 

Maybe a better perspective is: More of the rank and file in Open division prefer a longer pistol because they are somewhat easier to control.

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1 minute ago, MikieM said:

 

Maybe a better perspective is: More of the rank and file in Open division prefer a longer pistol because they are somewhat easier to control.

You statement is likely true.  But the statement I quoted   "There is a reason all of your top shooters are shooting long pistols." is not even close to accurate.  

The trend at the top is short, heavy guns.  There are exceptions but the majority are going that way.  A short gun with a heavy metal grip just transitions better.  
The gun that won at FLOP weighs almost 60 oz.  4.5" V8 with metal grip and tungsten sleeved barrel.  

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2 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

You statement is likely true.  But the statement I quoted   "There is a reason all of your top shooters are shooting long pistols." is not even close to accurate.  

The trend at the top is short, heavy guns.  There are exceptions but the majority are going that way.  A short gun with a heavy metal grip just transitions better.  
The gun that won at FLOP weighs almost 60 oz.  4.5" V8 with metal grip and tungsten sleeved barrel.  

 

I agree with you.

Do you think a regular Joe, like my self, would benefit? I don't mind telling you I like the idea of a shorter, but heavier, gun. A slight loss in muzzle velocity, but that is easily remedied. 

Also, the smaller C-More. Better optics? 

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2 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

I agree with you.

Do you think a regular Joe, like my self, would benefit? I don't mind telling you I like the idea of a shorter, but heavier, gun. A slight loss in muzzle velocity, but that is easily remedied. 

Also, the smaller C-More. Better optics? 


I think the only people who don't benefit from a shorter gun are those sensitive to blast.  And even then, if you stick with it for a few hundred rounds most people don't notice it anymore.  The akai tungsten sleeved guns are just as soft shooting as a full size with the benefit of faster transitions.  
I am a fan of the smaller optics, the Deltapoint Pro of the RTS 2, but that is highly subjective.  

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I'm fairly new to Open having shot a few matches with a bone-stock Trubor 9 major. I grabbed it with 6 mags (4 tuned) for a song, and it runs like a raped ape.

9 major almost feels like cheating, and Open feels supersonic after coming from SS!

I'm sure there are plenty of good builders ready to make you very happy, but I'd suggest keeping your eyes open for a good deal in the interim / while you wait for your custom gun.

Lord knows a handful of beautiful Open guns run through the classifieds here every month!


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I'm fairly new to Open having shot a few matches with a bone-stock Trubor 9 major. I grabbed it with 6 mags (4 tuned) for a song, and it runs like a raped ape.

9 major almost feels like cheating, and Open feels supersonic after coming from SS!

I'm sure there are plenty of good builders ready to make you very happy, but I'd suggest keeping your eyes open for a good deal in the interim / while you wait for your custom gun.

Lord knows a handful of beautiful Open guns run through the classifieds here every month!


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True...... I've even seen brand new trubors for around $2100. I just don't see them in 9mm anymore.

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True...... I've even seen brand new trubors for around $2100. I just don't see them in 9mm anymore.

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I found mine advertised locally. It was a guy who shot at my local club, ironically. Looks like I got lucky!


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On 18/02/2017 at 6:32 PM, 3djedi said:

Are the CZ Czechmate's worth looking at or stick with the 2011 platform? 

I have shot and owned several 1911 open guns in the past, and now shoot a czechmate. Both styles are good. My thoughts on the czechmate is that it is MUCH more reliable shooting literally anything you put in it 100%. The grip and feel of a Czechmate is preference, but with my smaller hands, it is just perfect. With the CZ style, I like the fact that the slide rides in the frame as it almost eliminates the chance of your thumb riding the slide which causes jams as well. My suggestion is to try one out and see if it is for you as the feel of one is different, but it did not take long for me to get used to it and the reliability aspect alone will keep me sticking with the Czechmate.

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On 2/18/2017 at 6:03 PM, 3djedi said:

 

 


Thanks....... nope never tried a TS. Had a elite limited that was nice. I like the look of the EAA Gold Team but all those holes scare me a little lol.

Do 9mm 124g coated blue bullets work for 9mm major? Have a bunch of those already. Also have about 18lbs of CFE Pistol sitting here. I was hoping those two would work for the time being.

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Being brand new to open guns myself I can't add a whole lot to the comparison between 2011 and CZ and Tanfo or short vs long .... BUT... like you,  I liked the looks of the gold team. I bought one last week because darn it I like the way they look and my accountant said I could!
After cooking up some loads and running them over the chronograph... the difference  between my 5" 1911 and the Gold team with identical loads was 50 FPS. All those holes didn't have nearly the effect that I initially thought they would.

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Being brand new to open guns myself I can't add a whole lot to the comparison between 2011 and CZ and Tanfo or short vs long .... BUT... like you,  I liked the looks of the gold team. I bought one last week because darn it I like the way they look and my accountant said I could!
After cooking up some loads and running them over the chronograph... the difference  between my 5" 1911 and the Gold team with identical loads was 50 FPS. All those holes didn't have nearly the effect that I initially thought they would.



Is it in 9mm? And are you talking about minor loads?

I really like the gold team myself! Cool looking gun!

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I have shot and owned several 1911 open guns in the past, and now shoot a czechmate. Both styles are good. My thoughts on the czechmate is that it is MUCH more reliable shooting literally anything you put in it 100%. The grip and feel of a Czechmate is preference, but with my smaller hands, it is just perfect. With the CZ style, I like the fact that the slide rides in the frame as it almost eliminates the chance of your thumb riding the slide which causes jams as well. My suggestion is to try one out and see if it is for you as the feel of one is different, but it did not take long for me to get used to it and the reliability aspect alone will keep me sticking with the Czechmate.



The Czech looks nice for sure. But it's chambered much shorter than a 2011 would be, correct?

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I think there is a lot of ambiguity in what a "short" open gun is. Some consider it to be anything less than a 5.4. The general consensus seems to be that a gun using an uncut Government length slide is a full size gun, with the barrel being 5.4 or 5.5 inches. A shorty would be a gun with a Commander length slide, with a barrel length of 4.65 to 4.75 inches. Something in between (like the IMM, LSI SS, a lot of the Akais, Brazos Pro Sx) usually starts with a government length slide cut back about a half inch, for approximately a 5" barrel length. The midlength seems to currently be hot with the top shooters (and some super squad shooters are using shorter open guns in 9mm). I think a lot of people state their gun lengths relative to how much gets cut off a government slide, i.e. a government length slide cut back a half inch would be called a 4.5" even though the barrel length is closer to 5". A cone comp is an exception to this as the thread engagement can be inside the slide.

 

I have tried to follow what the top 16 are shooting, and I haven't yet seen a top shooter shooting essentially a steel challenge gun at a major USPSA match. Can you make major with a 4.1" SC gun? Sure. But I am inclined to believe there is a reason none of the top guys seem to be using guns that short for major PF.

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34 minutes ago, 3djedi said:

 


Is it in 9mm? And are you talking about minor loads?

I really like the gold team myself! Cool looking gun!

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Dare I say out loud that it's a .40. It was the first trip out with a brand new gun and chronograph so I shot my go to plinker load with my old gun to get familiar with the chrono and software before I shot anything out of my gold team. I shot a magazine of that same ammo for comparison sake out of the gold team before I started working through my new loads. Came in at a pf142. 

What I can tell you is that out of the box, the gun cycled everything I put through it that first day with zero trouble from a pf133 to a pf172. And I was able to make major pf fairly handy with published load data. 

Now I'll go back to the special island for people that shoot open with a .40

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Dare I say out loud that it's a .40. It was the first trip out with a brand new gun and chronograph so I shot my go to plinker load with my old gun to get familiar with the chrono and software before I shot anything out of my gold team. I shot a magazine of that same ammo for comparison sake out of the gold team before I started working through my new loads. Came in at a pf142. 

What I can tell you is that out of the box, the gun cycled everything I put through it that first day with zero trouble from a pf133 to a pf172. And I was able to make major pf fairly handy with published load data. 

Now I'll go back to the special island for people that shoot open with a .40




Interesting....... I wonder why .40 is not used much in open. Can't but just be the round count, right? Seems like it would produce plenty of gas to work the comp. Plus safer to load ammo. Kind of seems ideal for a guy that shoots limited and just wants to get his feet wet in open.

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Dare I say out loud that it's a .40. It was the first trip out with a brand new gun and chronograph so I shot my go to plinker load with my old gun to get familiar with the chrono and software before I shot anything out of my gold team. I shot a magazine of that same ammo for comparison sake out of the gold team before I started working through my new loads. Came in at a pf142. 

What I can tell you is that out of the box, the gun cycled everything I put through it that first day with zero trouble from a pf133 to a pf172. And I was able to make major pf fairly handy with published load data. 

Now I'll go back to the special island for people that shoot open with a .40


The special island ain't all that bad! Open 40 is just FUN! It's fun to shoot a gun that creases your pants while you shoot!


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26 minutes ago, 3djedi said:

 

 


Interesting....... I wonder why .40 is not used much in open. Can't but just be the round count, right? Seems like it would produce plenty of gas to work the comp. Plus safer to load ammo. Kind of seems ideal for a guy that shoots limited and just wants to get his feet wet in open.

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That was exactly my thought... And why I landed there. I didn't want to have to get into loading another caliber with 38 super. And looking at what it takes to run 9 major ... Frankly kinda scares me.

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1 hour ago, 3djedi said:

I wonder why .40 is not used much in open... Kind of seems ideal for a guy that shoots limited and just wants to get his feet wet in open.

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40 Open and ideal don't belong together.

If I were in your shoes and didn't know if I wanted a competitive Open gun I would play with CO more and if you like the dot (even if you don't like the trigger, grip angle or whatever) then invest in a competitive Open setup.

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6 minutes ago, MikeRush said:

 

40 Open and ideal don't belong together.

If I were in your shoes and didn't know if I wanted a competitive Open gun I would play with CO more and if you like the dot (even if you don't like the trigger, grip angle or whatever) then invest in a competitive Open setup.

 

 

Yep, that's how I decided to go open. I bought a Walther PPQ Q5 with a FF3 and just absolutely love the dot and can see it much better than iron sights. My eyesight acuity and clarity seem to be fading. I hate the trigger and grip compared to my 2011 so I thought the logical conclusion was to merge the two. Dot on a 2011 platform and getting major scoring to boot! 

 

Oh, I re-read your post and I see your saying to play more with the CO gun before going all out on a open gun. Right? 

 

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1 minute ago, 3djedi said:

Oh, I re-read your post and I see your saying to play more with the CO gun before going all out on a open gun. Right? 

 

 

That's if you aren't completely sold on jumping in to Open. If you are sold on Open skip the 40 and buy a 5" to 5.5" 9 Major 2011. Resale on a 40 caliber Open gun is terrible and if you have a competitive personality I doubt you would be happy with it.

 

My rule of thumb for gun selection is to pick something similar to what the super squad uses. That way you never have to wonder "what if I had x gun".

 

Right now in Open that means a mid or full length 38sc or 9 Major, split between plastic and metal grips. Most have some holes, some have smaller RDS like the RTS2 and everyone else runs a vertical C More. The further you deviate from that the more excuses you have, which I feel is detrimental.

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That's if you aren't completely sold on jumping in to Open. If you are sold on Open skip the 40 and buy a 5" to 5.5" 9 Major 2011. Resale on a 40 caliber Open gun is terrible and if you have a competitive personality I doubt you would be happy with it.

 

My rule of thumb for gun selection is to pick something similar to what the super squad uses. That way you never have to wonder "what if I had x gun".

 

Right now in Open that means a mid or full length 38sc or 9 Major, split between plastic and metal grips. Most have some holes, some have smaller RDS like the RTS2 and everyone else runs a vertical C More. The further you deviate from that the more excuses you have, which I feel is detrimental.




Sound advice. Thanks!



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There are a lot of 40 Open shooters, but not many when compared to 9mm Major or 38SC.  Back in the day when 175PF was the floor, 40sw was the choice.  You can easily make 188PF or higher while still staying under max pressures listed in the manuals.

 

I shoot 40 Open and love it.  I don't see 3 fewer rounds in a big stick or 140 as a drawback.  26 + 1 gets you through many stages.  Even if it doesn't, there is always a place to reload that costs you no time.  Then there are the advantages.  It's a straight walled case, so fewer mag and feeding problems.  You can make Major and still stay well below max pressure if you like, and you can do it without using gobs of slow, expensive powders.

 

I have two Open 40s, one a CZ, the other a 2011.  I load to 1.126" for each and have zero problems with feeding.  I also have a CZ Limited gun.  As far as flexibility goes, I have plenty.

 

A 172PF load runs in both Open guns flawlessly.  For the CZ Open, I also have a Minor load that can be used for USPSA Minor or steel It is 131PF and is so soft the dot doesn't even jiggle.  It's softer than shooting a 22.  For the CZ Limited pistol a 109PF load is dynamite for SC.  The sights don't move and it is 22 soft.

 

There is literally no advantage to 9mm over 40 for Open, except 3 rounds of mag capacity.

 

That being said, I'm in the process of building a 9mm 1911 and a hicap 9mm, just because.  I plan to use the 1911 for SC and the hicap for Open Minor.  One contributor told me the only difference I'd notice on SC was I'd hear the ring sooner.  We'll see if that 250fps make a difference.

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