Grip Angle

[90lxracer]

I've been trolling around here, reading a lot and looking to start down the competition rabbit hole. lol 

 

With that said I've been going through the pistols I have and seeing what I like or dislike about them in regards to what I think would be the most *efficient* in regards to manipulation for reloads and what have you.

 

What I have: Walther PPX, a couple H&K's USP, V9, and I have an STI Costa VIP, and my buddy has a XD competition 5" in 45 ACP of those, from a strictly manipulation standpoint, the Walter was the one that seemed to be leading the pack from a slide release, mag release stand point.

 

Enter the Glock 34.. lol   I've never owned a glock as it's always seemed the grip angle of it wasn't really natural.. But I was at a gun show this last weekend, and I picked one up because I read abotu them all the time on here.. and I have to say.. the controls were all "right there" .. 

 

So the question I have is.. have anyone here had issue going between a glock and something else? Or maybe better question, going from something else to a glock? 

[Steve RA]

One way to tell about a suitable grip angle is to close your eyes, bring the gun up from a low ready position and open your eyes.  If the sights closely line up then the grip angle is close for you.  If the sights way low, or high, try something else.  

[Dr Mitch]

Grip angle doesn't matter at all.  What matters is that you can use the controls (mag release, trigger, slide release/slingshot) quickly.  Practice is how you build the index and burn in the manipulations.  You need to focus on one gun.  Work on your grip.

[SCTaylor]

Grip angle is a big deal to me. I left the glock family, had been with them for 5+ years, in favor of CZ/Tanfo.  This was predominately due to the grip angle.  CZ/Tanfo grips fit my hand very well and point right on.  This is all personal preference, you can learn to shoot anything. However, the big caveat is how often you'll change between them.  It took a lot of work to get the Glock to point naturally, I always had to push the front down.

 

[90lxracer]

49 minutes ago, SCTaylor said:

Grip angle is a big deal to me. I left the glock family, had been with them for 5+ years, in favor of CZ/Tanfo.  This was predominately due to the grip angle.  CZ/Tanfo grips fit my hand very well and point right on.  This is all personal preference, you can learn to shoot anything. However, the big caveat is how often you'll change between them.  It took a lot of work to get the Glock to point naturally, I always had to push the front down.

 

This is the initial thing I was seeing when I picked up the 34 over the weekend.. My *natural* grip or holding of the gun, the muzzle was way up.. But is that a muscle memory thing from other pistols or more *my* natural arm/hand extension? 

Edited February 14, 2017 by 90lxracer

[SCTaylor]

Nope, that's Glock perfection!  It can be easily overcome with training. Like I said before, my experience in handguns was 95% with glocks and I was accurate as required, but I didn't know any differently!  Once a CZ hit my hands, it was game over for Glock.

 

Again - going between a Glock & nearly anything else is a challenge. Glock to your  Walther PPX, H&K USP, V9, or STI Costa VIP won't be a big deal. BUT go the other way, from a current gun to a Glock, that's when the grip angle issue will require the work.

 

Edit to add - I still love glocks, plan to buy more when the funding is available.  They are like my first truck '86 chevy step side with a v8; ugly, cheap, rough handling, fun, but reliable. They will not fill the stable as a competition gun though.

Edited February 14, 2017 by SCTaylor

[90lxracer]

52 minutes ago, SCTaylor said:

Nope, that's Glock perfection!  It can be easily overcome with training. Like I said before, my experience in handguns was 95% with glocks and I was accurate as required, but I didn't know any differently!  Once a CZ hit my hands, it was game over for Glock.

 

Again - going between a Glock & nearly anything else is a challenge. Glock to your  Walther PPX, H&K USP, V9, or STI Costa VIP won't be a big deal. BUT go the other way, from a current gun to a Glock, that's when the grip angle issue will require the work.

 

Edit to add - I still love glocks, plan to buy more when the funding is available.  They are like my first truck '86 chevy step side with a v8; ugly, cheap, rough handling, fun, but reliable. They will not fill the stable as a competition gun though.

 

 

I hear that.. I like the PPX the most, but it's not legal for some reason.. so I'm looking for the PPQ Q5 Match.. I figure it's going to be the same control functionality.. but it seems to be getting high praise in regards to preformance.. if I can find one.. lol 

[lgh]

If you start with a Glock you will just learn that grip angle. If not, many find a Glock points too high. You can throw out your previous experience and learn the Glock. Or you might have a grip reduction done on the Glock. With a reduction, my Glocks and 1911's point the same. 

[dranged]

I would concur with Dr Mitch. It doesn't matter at all to me. I reached USPSA Master class in Production div with 34, started with 35. I go back and forth between G34 and 1911 in single stack. I think you nailed it if everything is "right there" for you. Gun games are more to me about preparation during the week than what tool you take to match. Good luck come play!


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[taxil343]

My first pistol was a 1911, that was all I shot for almost 5 years, so that grip angle was natural to me. When I first handled a Glock I needed to hook my weak hand index finger around the front of the trigger guard to pull the front sight down, it was honestly that bad. As I began shooting USPSA I studied the hell out of building a good, strong grip and quickly fell in love with the Glock as the horrible grip angle really promotes rolling your weak hand wrist forward. I have since changed platforms and now shoot a Tanfo Stock II. I had zero issues with pointing this gun after spending a little over a year with a Glock 34 in my hands for about 10 hours a week.

[jcc7x7]

M&p is normally considered a more natural grip angle, pretty good aftermarket .

Walther not so much.

As stated before buy a gun and stick with it, that will solve a lot of problems

[perttime]

Going between revolver, 1911 and Glock ... it takes me some time dry firing to get where I can get a sight picture with my eyes closed. I like the Glock angle very much.

[shooting for M]

For me, it takes some work to switch back and forth from Glocks to everything else. The Gen 4 is slightly better but still takes some time. Some guys can do it with no issues.

+1 on the pick one and stick with it.

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[igolfat8]

I've shot Glocks for many years and still do. I actually prefer the grip angle as it puts your grip and wrists at a downward angle that counteracts muzzle rise which helps to control the gun. The rear of the grip allows you to hold your hand the highest and closest to the axis of the bore of the barrel, again aiding in control of the gun.

 

I shoot 2011 as well and I have no issue adapting to the grip angle but many stumble going between the two platforms.

[jon9116]

Timberwolf made my g19 normal

[forrest84]

I think dwelling on the flock grip angle the way people do a lot is misleading. It's the hump on the ass end of the grip that pushes the muzzle up. I had the same problem starting on glocks a few years ago but because the size of my hands the slide has a tendency to suck the meaty part of my hand in it so I putt the grip force beaver tails on all of them and it in turn pushed the muzzle down to where my natural point of aim was so it all worked out.


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[dogtired]

On 2/15/2017 at 1:30 PM, perttime said:

Going between revolver, 1911 and Glock ... it takes me some time dry firing to get where I can get a sight picture with my eyes closed. I like the Glock angle very much.

This is my experience as well.  If you choose a Glock, buy a case of ammo (or load it) and practice.  Very quickly the grip angle becomes inconsequential.  IMO.

[Marshal82]

All this natural angle and close your eyes and hold the gun up is all nonsense. Same when people try a new grip method or pick up a different gun and they say it feels weird, of course it does because you haven't spent any time practicing or training with that gun/grip. 

 

Pick a popular gun that has good aftermarket support and practice. Just like changing your grip, it's all going to feel odd until you practice. I never liked glocks and still don't really but that's what I shoot because that's what I chose in the beginning and that's what I practice with. 

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, Marshal82 said:

All this natural angle and close your eyes and hold the gun up is all nonsense. Same when people try a new grip method or pick up a different gun and they say it feels weird, of course it does because you haven't spent any time practicing or training with that gun/grip. 

 

Pick a popular gun that has good aftermarket support and practice. Just like changing your grip, it's all going to feel odd until you practice. I never liked glocks and still don't really but that's what I shoot because that's what I chose in the beginning and that's what I practice with. 

Bull! Shoot any gun with a more traditional angle 1911, XDM ETC. then just try to shoot a Glock without first putting a bunch of ammo through it first. It will shoot pretty high until you remember you have to roll your wrists forward. 

 If you shoot Glocks then shoot Glocks. It's pretty tough bouncing back and forth between them and more traditional grip angles.

[Marshal82]

20 hours ago, Sarge said:

Bull! Shoot any gun with a more traditional angle 1911, XDM ETC. then just try to shoot a Glock without first putting a bunch of ammo through it first. It will shoot pretty high until you remember you have to roll your wrists forward. 

 If you shoot Glocks then shoot Glocks. It's pretty tough bouncing back and forth between them and more traditional grip angles.

 

Knowing you're heavily involved in the shooting sports I find it hard to believe that you have this opinion. So your response kinda surprises me, you should know that practice makes the difference. 

[SCTaylor]

4 minutes ago, Marshal82 said:

 

Knowing you're heavily involved in the shooting sports I find it hard to believe that you have this opinion. So your response kinda surprises me, you should know that practice makes the difference. 

 

 

Did you even read what he said? Going back & forth is hard, that you have to practice.  Unless I'm a helmet wearing window licker from Rhode Island, I'm pretty sure Sarge said Glocks are more difficult to deal with if you jump between "traditional" grip angles and the Glock.

[igolfat8]

I totally agree with Sarge. I shoot pistols a bit, ~15K rounds per year, mostly through Glocks, however I have a few 1911 and 2011s that I occasionally play with indoors during the winter months. It really screws me up switching between platforms, due to the grip angle differences. As long as I stick with one platform I am OK finding the dot but when I switch platforms it takes me quite a while to become as proficient finding the dot after drawing or mag changes.

[lgh]

4 minutes ago, Marshal82 said:

Knowing you're heavily involved in the shooting sports I find it hard to believe that you have this opinion. So your response kinda surprises me, you should know that practice makes the difference. 

Marshall82 - If you shoot a 1911, especially one with a straight backstrap and not the wedge, a Glock will prob ably point high when you first pick it up. Try a fast presentation with a Glock after shooting something like a 1911 for a long time. The standard drill is: eyes on target-close eyes-fast presentation-open eyes. Anybody who practices will know this drill and will have practiced it enough that the gun is aligned with the target with a good sight picture when they open their eyes. I would guess nearly everyone would be pointing high if they then did it with a Glock. If you initially learned the presentation with a Glock, that's a different story.  And I'm sure you can re-learn it with a Glock with multiple repetitions. 

[Marshal82]

I have both and can pick either up and within a just a couple minutes be fine with either. 

 

Either I'm over reading Sarges "Bull!" and a "bunch of ammo" or you guys are under reading it. I think we can all agree that practice is where it's at. 

 

For me I grip the guns totally different so when I have one in the hand my mind knows it's different and corrects without me thinking about it. Certainly did not mean to bash anyone here or start a flame war, we are all shooters and that's what matters to me.

[colt1911]

I also have trouble switching between platforms on the norm. Whenever I'm done with my 1911's/2011 and go back to my stupid Glocks that I carry every day at work and home, I always have to spend a little while doing what I call "getting my mind right with them," to which my wife scoffs and laughs and says "whatever excuse you need use to get out of work around here and go to the range." Yeah whatever woman..... #words.