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P320 X5 Thread

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1 hour ago, CHLChris said:

I run an X5 with a Robert Burke trigger job and a tungsten guide rod in CO and it ROCKS.  I'm thinking of setting up a backup with an X-Carry that is a lot closer to stock.

 

Has anybody shot a stock X-Carry next to an optimized X5?  This backup gun, while not as good as an identical X5, would be closer than my G17.  But how close?  It would be a lot lighter, for one.

You can find new X5s for $650 right now... might as well get an identical backup at that price. 

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17 hours ago, AmarokTactical said:

You can find new X5s for $650 right now... might as well get an identical backup at that price. 

 

One can find X-Carries for more than a hundred less than that, so one might argue for having the flexibility of a more concealable pistol with similar feel and ergonomics.  I suppose it depends on what you’re doing with it.

 

I have two each Xcarries for defense and Xfives for gaming, and honestly, before I upgraded the Xfive triggers, I was outshooting them with the Xcarries.   No contest now with the full Grayguns competition trigger setups in the Xfives, but the Xcarry is an excellent carry piece.

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On 1/19/2019 at 12:26 AM, AmarokTactical said:

You can find new X5s for $650 right now... might as well get an identical backup at that price. 

Where are you seeing it for $650? Lowest i'm finding is $690...

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1 hour ago, mwin323 said:

Where are you seeing it for $650? Lowest i'm finding is $690...

Looks like $699 shipped is around the best deal currently. Those probably wont last much longer, I'm told a new version that is compatible with more than just the Romeo1 is supposed to be coming out and they are letting some of the old stock go for a good deal.

 

But if you're looking for a combo with a Romeo1 you can get the X5 with 3MOA R1 for $770 at the moment - hard deal to beat!

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/category.cfm/sportsman/firearms/combos/317?utm_source=011819-2&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=011819-2

Edited by AmarokTactical

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I’d spend the extra money for the 6moa, it’s that much better. 

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36 minutes ago, OPENB said:

I’d spend the extra money for the 6moa, it’s that much better. 

Agreed

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16 hours ago, AmarokTactical said:

Looks like $699 shipped is around the best deal currently. Those probably wont last much longer, I'm told a new version that is compatible with more than just the Romeo1 is supposed to be coming out and they are letting some of the old stock go for a good deal.

 

But if you're looking for a combo with a Romeo1 you can get the X5 with 3MOA R1 for $770 at the moment - hard deal to beat!

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/category.cfm/sportsman/firearms/combos/317?utm_source=011819-2&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=011819-2

Thats a pretty sweet deal. Thanks!

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So I found out the pricy way that I prefer the curved Gray Guns PELT trigger over the straight one that they offer. Needles to say I have a Straight PELT triggerup for grabs! DM me for info.  

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I've been trying to get my eyes or ears on SHOT show news around Sig Sauer offerings.  Nobody on YouTube I follow has been doing anything about Sig.

 

I'm looking for news on the x-series 320 pistols and on their pistol red dots.

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Talk about Sig discontinuing the current X5, its being false, then being sold at discount to allow for new model with updated optic mounting plate, is interesting A different viewpoint. 

Bought a new, upgraded P320 X5 recently. With mixed factory rounds (9mm), it severely bulged 13 rounds straight (seen later), and blew out a 14th, ejecting the extractor to obscurity. 

Called Sig and was told by customer service:"We have never heard of this before". Examination of the pistol revealed, and using precision metrology equipment, that chamber depth was indeed too short, leaving the case rears unsupported the full circumference of the chamber. In fact the blown case was almost severed into two pieces, not just at the feed ramp. Additionally, there is a very heavy and deep radius around the chamber mouth. The use of mixed factory rules out the "bad case" excuse, often cited. Comparison of many different 9mm handguns in collection (Beretta, Sig P226 X5, 226, 229, Browning, 1911, Smith and Wesson 5906 PPC, 469, Astra 600, Kahr, Luger, Colt 2000, even a Hi point, showed much more chamber/case support. Search revealed at least three federal lawsuits over blowouts, on in Western District of Missouri, a class action, and repeated blow ups. There are suits over safety as well, with several injured law enforcement officers. Noting the date of the suits, and my recent "Never heard of this" comment from Sig, it is truly almost impossible that Sig did not know of this. The local gun shop (Duncan's Gun Shop, Wilkesboro, N.C.) was of absolutely no help. I obtained a return authorization and returned the pistol to Sig. 12 days later, it returned, citing only a extractor replacement, examination and test firing, all reported as normal. However, back to the metrology equipment, the chamber depth was most definitely not the same, with deeper seat. Headspace was in normal limits. As a mere chamber ream would open headspace, it must be a new barrel. Radius appeared same. Combination of the many suits far predating my contact with Sig, and the discrepancy shown by metrology, there is cause to suspect Sig is not being totally honest here. I have personally met with others who were not as lucky as me, sustaining injury.  "We never heard of this" was cited as well. IT is interesting that the customer service rep is fast to ask about injuries or emergency room visitation. 

Out of lock firings were cited in one suit; technically this is right and wrong. Mr. Gray with GrayGuns, was quite argumentative over this out of lock issue, citing "It is impossible for the X5 to fire out of battery". He is half right. When the pistol if out of lock and fires, there is catastrophic case failure. The disconnector is set to prevent this. However, a situation of gross headspace can also mimick the same, or in the case of failed case support, say due to tolerance stacking. Generous radius, shallow chamber reaming, but with headspace appearing normal, leaves unsupported case web area. This can happen because the barrel remains in lock, disconnector not engaged. Thus the result is a blowout with the action indeed locked. So, technically, Gray is correct. But, as Paul Harvey once said: "Here is the rest of the story". Then the issue of reload use was suggested. In my case, no.  However, in over 40 years of reloading, including many .38 Super and 9mm loadings (Not major 9), I have never experienced a blow out of any nature. The only problem encountered, ever, was a case partial separation loading for the 5.7x28, years ago, when I first started loading that caliber for the FiveSeven pistol. That was near the shoulder and was a repeated sizing/shoulder setback issue native to that cartridge. 

But I digress, my point here is, in my opinion, Sig knew it had a problem with the X5 barrel. It chose not to do a recall and rebarrel. Much like they did a voluntary send back for upgrading secondary to drop fires, but no recall. Rebarreling would be too expensive. The approach is to replace those sent in, but initially blame on "bad brass", reloads, or some other "operator" error. I did contact several nationally known gunwriters, who expressed interest, but were "unaware" of the problem. But then, when was the last time a gunwriter wrote of such issues? I can't remember. They wish to remain cozy with the manufacturers. I am concerned with shooter safety. I did recommend, based on this, that Duncan's withdraw this pistol from stock for sale, but seemingly they have refused. They are now very well informed as to the safety problem, as should all gunshops.    Some have had glowing positive experiences with the X5, some clearly have had near catastrophic experiences. So, any new model change, say to incorporate a new optic base, does raise my antennae. It avoids facing the problem.  FYI. 

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I invite all to read: P320 X5 blowout posting 01/24/19 by Rudder, concerning the Sig P320 X5 blowouts.

Interesting alternative viewpoint of others experiences. 

FYI

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5 hours ago, rudder said:

I invite all to read: P320 X5 blowout posting 01/24/19 by Rudder, concerning the Sig P320 X5 blowouts.

Interesting alternative viewpoint of others experiences. 

FYI

 

A link would be helpful, if you wish to relink to your posts somewhere else.

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24 minutes ago, aalbert said:

 

A link would be helpful, if you wish to relink to your posts somewhere else.

 

I think he is referencing his post right above that one ☝️

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6 hours ago, rudder said:

Talk about Sig discontinuing the current X5, its being false, then being sold at discount to allow for new model with updated optic mounting plate, is interesting A different viewpoint. 

Bought a new, upgraded P320 X5 recently. With mixed factory rounds (9mm), it severely bulged 13 rounds straight (seen later), and blew out a 14th, ejecting the extractor to obscurity. 

Called Sig and was told by customer service:"We have never heard of this before". Examination of the pistol revealed, and using precision metrology equipment, that chamber depth was indeed too short, leaving the case rears unsupported the full circumference of the chamber. In fact the blown case was almost severed into two pieces, not just at the feed ramp. Additionally, there is a very heavy and deep radius around the chamber mouth. The use of mixed factory rules out the "bad case" excuse, often cited. Comparison of many different 9mm handguns in collection (Beretta, Sig P226 X5, 226, 229, Browning, 1911, Smith and Wesson 5906 PPC, 469, Astra 600, Kahr, Luger, Colt 2000, even a Hi point, showed much more chamber/case support. Search revealed at least three federal lawsuits over blowouts, on in Western District of Missouri, a class action, and repeated blow ups. There are suits over safety as well, with several injured law enforcement officers. Noting the date of the suits, and my recent "Never heard of this" comment from Sig, it is truly almost impossible that Sig did not know of this. The local gun shop (Duncan's Gun Shop, Wilkesboro, N.C.) was of absolutely no help. I obtained a return authorization and returned the pistol to Sig. 12 days later, it returned, citing only a extractor replacement, examination and test firing, all reported as normal. However, back to the metrology equipment, the chamber depth was most definitely not the same, with deeper seat. Headspace was in normal limits. As a mere chamber ream would open headspace, it must be a new barrel. Radius appeared same. Combination of the many suits far predating my contact with Sig, and the discrepancy shown by metrology, there is cause to suspect Sig is not being totally honest here. I have personally met with others who were not as lucky as me, sustaining injury.  "We never heard of this" was cited as well. IT is interesting that the customer service rep is fast to ask about injuries or emergency room visitation. 

Out of lock firings were cited in one suit; technically this is right and wrong. Mr. Gray with GrayGuns, was quite argumentative over this out of lock issue, citing "It is impossible for the X5 to fire out of battery". He is half right. When the pistol if out of lock and fires, there is catastrophic case failure. The disconnector is set to prevent this. However, a situation of gross headspace can also mimick the same, or in the case of failed case support, say due to tolerance stacking. Generous radius, shallow chamber reaming, but with headspace appearing normal, leaves unsupported case web area. This can happen because the barrel remains in lock, disconnector not engaged. Thus the result is a blowout with the action indeed locked. So, technically, Gray is correct. But, as Paul Harvey once said: "Here is the rest of the story". Then the issue of reload use was suggested. In my case, no.  However, in over 40 years of reloading, including many .38 Super and 9mm loadings (Not major 9), I have never experienced a blow out of any nature. The only problem encountered, ever, was a case partial separation loading for the 5.7x28, years ago, when I first started loading that caliber for the FiveSeven pistol. That was near the shoulder and was a repeated sizing/shoulder setback issue native to that cartridge. 

But I digress, my point here is, in my opinion, Sig knew it had a problem with the X5 barrel. It chose not to do a recall and rebarrel. Much like they did a voluntary send back for upgrading secondary to drop fires, but no recall. Rebarreling would be too expensive. The approach is to replace those sent in, but initially blame on "bad brass", reloads, or some other "operator" error. I did contact several nationally known gunwriters, who expressed interest, but were "unaware" of the problem. But then, when was the last time a gunwriter wrote of such issues? I can't remember. They wish to remain cozy with the manufacturers. I am concerned with shooter safety. I did recommend, based on this, that Duncan's withdraw this pistol from stock for sale, but seemingly they have refused. They are now very well informed as to the safety problem, as should all gunshops.    Some have had glowing positive experiences with the X5, some clearly have had near catastrophic experiences. So, any new model change, say to incorporate a new optic base, does raise my antennae. It avoids facing the problem.  FYI. 

Although the chambers on both of mine are shorter than I would like, they are both longer than the Apex gunsmith fit barrel, in my M&P pro.

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6 hours ago, rudder said:

I invite all to read: P320 X5 blowout posting 01/24/19 by Rudder, concerning the Sig P320 X5 blowouts.

Interesting alternative viewpoint of others experiences. 

FYI

Did your brass look like this:

 

sig brass.png

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56 minutes ago, titandriver said:

Did your brass look like this:

 

sig brass.png

OMG 

If brass looked like that out of any of my guns, I wouldn’t continue shooting it!

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1 hour ago, RH45 said:

OMG 

If brass looked like that out of any of my guns, I wouldn’t continue shooting it!

So you're sayin' you don't think a Lee "bulge buster" in 9mm will straighten that brass out & make it reusable again?

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9 minutes ago, titandriver said:

So you're sayin' you don't think a Lee "bulge buster" in 9mm will straighten that brass out & make it reusable again?

Even if you could force it through a die, I wouldn’t trust it. Working the brass that much would have to make it have a weak spot 

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2 hours ago, titandriver said:

Did your brass look like this:

 

sig brass.png

Did those come from an X5.

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If the chamber is reamed too short, especially short enough for the case to hang out enough to be unsupported, the pistol won't go completely into battery

and the disconnector will prevent it from firing. 

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3 hours ago, titandriver said:

Did your brass look like this:

 

sig brass.png

Is it just me or do you shoot one round out of a brand new gun, then look at the case

Then two and look at the cases.

Then load the mag and go for it, or do the majority just load up and go!?

I usually pull the bbl out and plunk test my ammo before I fire the first shot, but that's me!

 

Glad who ever this happened to didn't get hurt.

Also don't understand how the gun went bang to begin with UNLESS the whole bottom of the chamber area below the hood was not there.

That would be an unusual bbl for sure and a major manufacturing mis que to say the least.

 

FWIW, both my 320 and X-5 have never had a piece of brass bulged much less look like that.

Both will not fire if the slide is ever so slightly out of battery, found that out both by dry testing and when testing light recoil springs.

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Rudder, thank you for the detailed explanation.  I do not currently have access to a metrology lab, but I know exactly what you are speaking of and appreciate that you took measurements and speak with data. I had three P320s previously and currently have an X5 with a P320 Carry on the way. None have exhibited this problem of great concern. That being said, in volume production bad components can be produced without strict implementation of error-proofing. The result is a percentage of bad products and you obviously received one. 

Edited by DCSigCZ

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