Buying a metal grip gunREALLY worth it for limited?

[nikdanja]

I shoot a edge now in limited and love the gun. I keep toying with the idea of buying a metal grip gun for the new season but can't get over the cost. The "cheapest" I've found is the Atlas Gun Works "Titan" and that's $3500 big ones which is a big jump to the $2k used edge I bought last year. I know the shpeel about how a custom gun has more man hours has more care into building it and all that but I keep saying to myself, damn I can get 2 guns for the price of a metal grip USPSA pistol.  I also keep saying to myself that Shane Coley won area 8 shooting a freaking Glock, why the hell are you going to pay $3k+ for a freaking new limited gun? 

The plan is to buy a "new" gun and use the one I'm currently using as a back up. Back up being key so I can have some peace of mind again this season. 

I don't know what to think about buying another used gun because I feel I've hit the jack pot and have never had any problems with the used gun I bought now. I've put atleast 10k thru it and don't know how much the previous owner out thru it. 

What do you guys think?

Edited January 5, 2017 by nikdanja

[AzShooter]

Buy the best you can afford and don't  look back.  

A good, tuned gun is  going to cost you money.  A lot of  work goes into it but once you pay for it you won't have to make additions to it later and nickel and dime yourself until you actually pay more.

Test your friends guns and ask to test the gun  you are interested in buying.  Make sure it fits you.

I like having a tuned gun that I can depend on.  When  I had a sponsor give me a  good gun things really improved.  I didn't have to think of if it  would work or not I knew it would.

 

[CaptainOverkill]

Metal grip vs polymer grip is pure personal preference.  Some prefer a heavier gun, some prefer lighter.  IMO one is not inherently "better" than the other, so I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about it.  Find someone who has a metal gripped gun who will let you try it out.

 

One thing I'd consider before buying a metal gripped gun and using your Edge as a backup is that they will feel and handle a lot different.  I'd want both guns to be close to the same in terms of weight and balance.  Both of my 2011s have Extreme Shooters DVC grips on them.

Edited January 5, 2017 by CaptainOverkill

[ScottieShootz]

Shane shoots an Agency glock if I remember- so it's a $3,000 gun.

Does anyone at your club matches have a metal gripped gun you could handle/shoot a few rounds? I'd just buy a CK arms or Akai limited gun with plastic grip that is ready to go with no wait time and call it a day.  I know atlas is supposed to have ready to ship guns coming as well but not sure if those only have metal grips and cost a fortune.  

The plastic vs metal debate is entirely about preference as others have said, and I think for some it's bragging rights because it makes you special since you spent more money.  I spent the money and did a metal grip on my new open build, I didn't really need it, but I like the feel of the extra weight in the grip.  With that said, I can still shoot just fine with plastic STI grips and my glocks. 

[bkjunk]

Shooters Connection has several CKArms steel grip 9mm in stock. I bought one about 6 months ago, and have not had any regrets since. Well except for when I cross treaded the mag release, and had to order a replacement.

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[Steppenwolf]

You would be better off building a grip of steel. Grip strength increase and practice gripping hard will take your farther (at no additional cost).

[glassblower]

One other consideration is that some metal grips have a slightly different profile on the trigger guard that requires a different insert on your Double Alpha or similar race holster. If you plan on using a back up gun, it would need to have the same grip or you swap out the insert. I went down the SVI metal grip path for one of my Edges and really liked the feel, but, didn't feel the improved grip or cost was worth changing my 2011's grips to all metal.

An additional advantage with the plastic grips is that with a little care and patience, you can stipple your plastic grip to your personal prefs. Can't do that with a metal grip.

 

[nikdanja]

Thanks guys! I've been watching the CK arms guns closly and been toying with the idea for those if I go the plastic route. There's a guy who's going to let me shoot his metal gripped sti Sunday so I'll see them but hearing some of you guys talk maybe it's more of the right of passage because you have a metal gripped gun. I would really love an Atlas Titan but $3500 is a lot of cash. No disrespect to Atlas. Adam has done work for me in the past and I understand he has to keep the lights on. 

[SWprotected]

Well you are comparing apples and oranges. I like STI and have a couple myself but I also know how much parts cost to build a custom limited gun. With a metal grip I had about over 2k in the parts alone and that is what my Edge cost new. The metal vs plastic grip is purely preference as others have said. I switched to metal because I liked the balance of the gun better.

[BeerBaron]

Ck do steel grip guns off the shelf too. Might be a little cheaper than the atlas. 

Regarding holsyers my daa magnetic fits both my plastic grips and my ck steel grips just fine but another holster I had did not. 

[nelson1each]

I bought 2 identical ck arms lim guns with metal grips. I ended up selling the metal grips and putting polymer on. I didn't like how heavy they were....not too mention how cold those suckers are in the winter time. The recoil difference was barely noticeable to me. 

[Foxj66]

I added a metal grip to my cheely, after a 100 rounds I knew it wasn't for me the gun just felt dead in my hands and I didn't notice any advantages besides increased weight.  See if you can't borrow one to shoot at the range or a match first. 

[anilson]

Here is my 2 cents. (I do have some skin in this)

Limited gun like open guns should be built as a system.  Limited guns are much simpler without a comp and ports but its still a system.

Slide weight, recoil spring, grip pressure, firing pin stop cut, slide to frame fit, grip weight, grip size, dust cover length all make up the system.  

Almost every shooter will benefit from a steel griped 2011, if the system is set up well.

Putting parts together or adding parts to a existing gun may or may not yield good results.

Physics would tell us that the gun will recoil less with the added weight lower in the gun.

I have had some pros tell me that they can shoot the plastic guns within 5% to 10% of the 2011 guns.  If you want to shoot as much as they do you might be able get to that level.  Most shooters don't have the time, finances, or drive to get to that level.  If a pro shooting a Glock, FNH, or M&P looses a Major by a couple percent they most likely would have won with the 2011.  If they win with one of plastic gun they would have been even better with the 2011.

The 2011 triggers is where it makes big gains for shooters shooting less then 50k a year.  You can train to shoot a glock with a 3lb trigger and be successful, but it takes lots of rounds.  Shooting a 2011 with a 2lb trigger takes almost no time to learn and be accurate.  

 

We came out with the Titan line because the cost of plastic guns started to get to high.  

Here's our math

DVC                $2800     Labor

Tune/Trigger   $200       $300   

Steel Grip       $650        $250

SVI trigger      $75          $25

Total               $3725       $575

We saw that too many shooters were buying STI type guns and dumping $$$$ into them that they would never recover if the gun was sold.

The STI gun with just the upgraded parts and the shooter doing the install, is $125 more than a Titan ,which is a custom hand fit gun that comes with our customer service.  If you pay us to do the work the Titan is $700 less.

Here is why the STI thing can be a bad deal.  The resale on a sti dvc with steel grips and svi trigger and trigger/ tune job is a few hundred more dollars then one with nothing done to it.  The Titan won't loose value on extra parts, just the gun.  Used dvc guns today run in the 2200 zone and you would be lucky to get 50 cents on the dollar on the parts, so a loaded dvc might sell for $2700 a loss of $1000-$1500.  Buy a Titan run it for two seasons and sell it for $3k and you spent $600 to shoot a much better gun and with Atlas customer service (we don't have many problems with our guns but if it happens we fix it fast on our dime).

 

Best

Adam

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeerBaron]

very solid argument from atlas. And the CK is a nice gun, but the titan looks like another step up again for not much difference in $$ (and I say this as a ck owner). 

I'm guessing the steel grip titan comes with pt evo grip? Just the benefit of the evo grip (which fits a wider range of hand sizes in my limited experience with it) and the SV trigger are worth $$ over the steel ck grip and sti trigger in that grip (work needed if you want to run an SV trigger in your CK). 

Not to mention with a AGW titan you get PVD finish, better balanced slide (DVC is all light in the front) and it doesn't look all hokey and mass produced like the DVC does...

[anilson]

Yes the Titan get the PT EVO grip

We wanted to make the best value gun in the market that was ready to just shoot right out of the box.  I have personally wasted lots of time working on and upgrading guns I have owned in the past.  The Titan is for shooters who want to spend more time on the range and less time working on their guns.

BeerBaron thanks for the post.  Everything there is true but the part that has not been said is that the Titan is a Full Custom and hand fit gun.  Built the same way our custom guns are built the only difference is the with only trigger insert and magwell choices we can keep the cost down.  The gun is under priced at $3599 but we are working hard to drive quality up and price down for the whole industry.  The Titan is the first step to help shooter get a really high quality gun with the best customer service in a timely manner.  We are working hard to come out with more models that fit shooters needs in 2017.  

See you on the Range

Adam

 

[troupe]

If you already have the gun and like it, why not just add a grip and shoot the gun you are comfortable with.  The steel will soften the recoil, simply by the weight.  Someone mentioned that you can grip the pistol harder.  If you have to grip the pistol harder, then you are adding tension in your grip that will cause more problems.  Relax, and add the steel.  If you do have the chance to shoot a steel grip, do it before you spend the money.  If you just want to spend the money for a new gun, do it.  The new EVO is a work of art.  Brian has done a great job on it.

[BeerBaron]

15 hours ago, anilson said:

Yes the Titan get the PT EVO grip

We wanted to make the best value gun in the market that was ready to just shoot right out of the box.  I have personally wasted lots of time working on and upgrading guns I have owned in the past.  The Titan is for shooters who want to spend more time on the range and less time working on their guns.

BeerBaron thanks for the post.  Everything there is true but the part that has not been said is that the Titan is a Full Custom and hand fit gun.  Built the same way our custom guns are built the only difference is the with only trigger insert and magwell choices we can keep the cost down.  The gun is under priced at $3599 but we are working hard to drive quality up and price down for the whole industry.  The Titan is the first step to help shooter get a really high quality gun with the best customer service in a timely manner.  We are working hard to come out with more models that fit shooters needs in 2017.  

See you on the Range

Adam

 

As I said I'm happy with my 2 CK arms opens but I would not hesitate to buy a titan or your new chaos(?) open gun when it lands.

Looking at it objectively for ~$200 more than the sticker price of the steel grip CK you get:

SV trigger vs STI trigger (that would burn $200 right there by the time it was bought and fitted)
MBX 140mm mag - over $100 just for that (CK comes with no mags)
A slide that looks to be better balanced front to rear - CK thunder is light in front.
Tri-topped vs just flat topped on the CK - that is definitely a benefit in my eyes and also contributes to the balance of the slide
I would also argue the PT evo is a nicer grip than the CK but that's more a personal preference thing, it certainly has a nicer MSH and it accepts regular 2011 magwells I believe?
You also get a pinned/non functioning grip safety out of the box (vs the still functioning Ed brown on the CK which for most needs to be pinned asap at the owners expense). 

If you had a gunsmith do the SV trigger install, disable the grip safety on a ck and bought that one mvx mag that would easily run you way over the price difference between the two.

As I said I like the CK product but I can't help but think that objectively speaking the Atlas titan is another step up for basically the same money. Also consider how quickly $200 goes on ammo, or match entry. To me the guns (even $$$ 2011's) are still one of the cheapest aspects of the sport. Most of us would easily spend $5K+ a year just in ammo, not to mention the cost of a press, tumbler, travel, match entry etc etc etc. 

The great part about buying something like a titan is that it retains it's value. Sinking more money into a edge generally end up being sunk costs. It's like putting nice wheels on your car. It doesn't change the value, it just makes it easier to sell vs a car of the same model that doesn't have nice wheels. 

So putting a steel grip on an edge is a fine idea if you want to go down that path but there is something to be said for buying a gun with the options you want from the get go. 

Kudos to atlas for offering another great option in gunsmith built 2011s.

Edited January 11, 2017 by BeerBaron

[blaster113]

I'm one of those that likes a heavy gun.  Added a steel grip to my latest custom 5.5" which had a plastic grip and I feel like it I can shoot it faster.  My next Limited gun will definitely have a steel grip.  I like the feel of having extra weight in the hand with a lightened slide which helps reduce recoil.  Previously had a 6" STI with a light slide and plastic grip.  I just couldn't shoot it well, felt too light and sold it.