Why is is so hard to get people to try USPSA?

[usmc1974]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:02 AM, flamatrix99 said:

I was at one of the local ranges and a LEO gun guy was trying to help his two friends (LEOs obviously not gun guys) get ready for their annual re-qualification. I am no shooting stud by any measure but I do decent. These guys looked like they hit a B-27 with a 9mm shotgun. I couldn't believe it. They saw me shooting and asked if I was in law enforcement and I said no I am just a guy that likes to shoot.

Lol I was qualifying for the KDOC I was the only to shoot 250 every time. They ask me where did I learn to shoot? From a robber? Lol. Then like you I saw 2 SO's trying to teach a young fellow how to shot he was all over the big B27 at 7 yards. I said I see why LEO's can't shoot they start learning to miss at a young age. They d I'd not see the humor in that.

[MikeBurgess]

Imagine how hard it would be to get people to Golf if most people trying it for the first time were 160+ over par?  sounds crazy right but how many shooters, who think they can shoot, when they show up to their first match finish in the 30% range? that's like thinking you can golf and still being 160 over. 

 

Or imagine you have been riding a Motorcycle on and off foy years and decide to try going to the track for the first time and you get passed by the same guy 2 or 3 times a lap.

 

It fine to think your OK at something, its another thing to have it pointed out that you are actually very very bad at it. and lets face it most of us started out very very bad at this, it take a special kind of personality to go wow I am bad at that, i can do better and will work to do so, vs Forget that  I'm doing something else.

 

 

[sfinney]

And even more frustrating to realize you suck....  but you'll never get better unless you buy a $2K set of Golf Clubs, or the latest 600cc motorcycle, or a $2K Production gun. 

Because those guys, who are so good.... its the equipment, right? It cant be because the worked their tail off.

 

That fancy equipment only close that last 2 or 3 % between top shooters, in most Divisions. Training/dry fire,  having gun/mags that run 100%, and being able to hit a pie plate at 25yds is all you really need.

[MikeBurgess]

5 minutes ago, sfinney said:

And even more frustrating to realize you suck....  but you'll never get better unless you buy a $2K set of Golf Clubs, or the latest 600cc motorcycle, or a $2K Production gun. 

Because those guys, who are so good.... its the equipment, right? It cant be because the worked their tail off.

 

That fancy equipment only close that last 2 or 3 % between top shooters, in most Divisions. Training/dry fire,  having gun/mags that run 100%, and being able to hit a pie plate at 25yds is all you really need.

Agreed many think its the equipment, but its not. I actually think your 2 to 3% is to high for our game at the top (as long as it runs) at the bottom I will concede a shooter switching to a nice SA gun from a stock GLOCK will likely be able to mask enough bad trigger control to gain a few % off the bat but that's about it and as you get better the difference gets smaller and smaller till it's gone. 

[Dbw2223]

My wife LOVES to shoot...as long as it’s just punching paper. She just doesn’t get into the whole competition aspect and has some stigma about people watching her.

[usmc1974]

On 7/31/2018 at 5:04 PM, sfinney said:

And even more frustrating to realize you suck....  but you'll never get better unless you buy a $2K set of Golf Clubs, or the latest 600cc motorcycle, or a $2K Production gun. 

Because those guys, who are so good.... its the equipment, right? It cant be because the worked their tail off.

 

That fancy equipment only close that last 2 or 3 % between top shooters, in most Divisions. Training/dry fire,  having gun/mags that run 100%, and being able to hit a pie plate at 25yds is all you really need.

This is very true, I started with a auto ordinance in 1982 since then I owned them all. I came to the conclusion, I love shooting my Beretta 92fs all I did was lighten and clean up the trigger and practice, practice, practice.

[Racinready300ex]

On 7/31/2018 at 6:17 PM, MikeBurgess said:

Agreed many think its the equipment, but its not. I actually think your 2 to 3% is to high for our game at the top (as long as it runs) at the bottom I will concede a shooter switching to a nice SA gun from a stock GLOCK will likely be able to mask enough bad trigger control to gain a few % off the bat but that's about it and as you get better the difference gets smaller and smaller till it's gone. 

 

I agree the equipment means a lot less than people think. But I  think there is a difference, and I don't know that the gap is ever gone. I'd go the opposite and say the lower your skill the less the gear matters, and it takes a better shooter to really take advantage of equipment.

 

[touji]

I've started to realize the equipment really helps on big match days more so than local matches. It isn't too bad gripping a plastic fantastic hard and maintaining strict trigger control for 5 stages, but it definitely get's harder after the 7th or 8th stage, and definitely isn't fun on stage 13.

[CTJer]

I've gotten a hand full of shooters to come out to some matches.   One guy is all in.

 

 

I do think that it can be pretty intimidating at first.   Males don't want to finish at the bottom and realize that aren't that good a shooter.

[drmiller100]

Hello, brand new to this.

A really good buddy was talking about how fun it was at a small monthly shoot, so I tried with my Glock 23.  Had a great time, so I invited my girlfriend to also go the next time. 

I asked if she could shoot my Browning Buckmark ahead of time.   The powers that be got together and decided she could, but she wasn't going to win any prize money if she won (smiles) and she can't go to any real matches with it.

And it was really welcoming and friendly. 

So first get togeher went well with just me.

Second get together (her first) went GREAT.

Third time was ok.  Everyone spent hours arguing about rules with other people's equipment. It went well enough that when someone objected to her shooting the 22 midway through the day, and made a stink, she was already hooked, and we are looking for a Glock 17, albeit at another range.

 

My point is that the ability to shoot the 22 took away a BUNCH of objections. 

Cost of ammo

Scariness of a new/different gun (she has put a LOT of rounds through that Buckmark and is VERY comfortable with it). 

Her Confidence she is "safe" with  HER Buckmark.

Holster (again, she is comfortable with the Buckmark and knows how to belt it up).

Intimidation of a "bigger gun". 

 

We watched another lady struggle with an M&P Shield.   She is pretty new to shooting also, and the course combined with the big gun, combined with recoil, combined with all the "help" everyone was giving her and I wonder if she'd be better off starting with a 22 also.

 

My point is now that my girlfriend knows she likes it, she is willing to invest in a gun for it, and the practice to become proficient with it. 

[Mcfoto]

^^^ this covers my current "home" situation as well. Trying to get the better half to come out but even a 9 mm is too much recoil for her. Probably going to start her out at Speed steel where rimfire is good to go...

[CHA-LEE]

If your local club isn't willing to make reasonable accommodations to get new shooters shooting at their first match or two then you need to try a different club. As a USPSA MD myself I have "Approved" of using non-legal guns or gear for brand new shooters just so they could participate in their match. I would obviously try to shoe horn their existing gun or gear into a legal division, such as Limited or Open given the circumstances. But sometimes that isn't possible. For example, when a parent wants to bring their child to a match to use a .22 caliber pistol for their first few matches I will absolutely allow that. I will also make it known that their results will not "count" for the actual match and I will remove their scores before the results are uploaded to USPSA. Lastly, I will make this new shooter deviation from the rules publicly known in the shooters meeting and ask the shooters if there is any objections. To date I have never had anyone object to this exception.

 

I don't actively advertise making these concessions for non-legal equipment or guns being an option to use at my USPSA matches. I also do my best to help new shooters come to their first match with legal equipment. Hell, I have forgotten how many times I have loaned my own guns, gear and ammo to people just to try USPSA out. But I am sure as hell not going to turn away a new shooter who has invested the time and effort to come to my match and try USPSA first hand.  

[Nathanb]

I’m firmly in the boat with cha lee. If I need to make exceptions to get new shooters involved then I will do just that as a md. We aren’t just shooting for fun and score we are acting as ambassadors for the sport. 

[davsco]

+1 for everything chalee said above!!

 

so, funny story this past weekend.  had two federal LEO's show up to a match last weekend for other purposes (recruiting for their agency).  i told them both i'd let them run a partial uspsa stage (free loaner gun and ammo, start at low ready) so they could see what it was like.  the guy took a little convincing but did it, but the lady ran for the hills. if my job put me in a position where my life probably depends on my ability to proficiently use firearms, not only would i seek out the games we play, but i sure as hell wouldn't run away from them when given the chance.

[broadside72]

I just started USPSA earlier this year. Before that I was only shooting the LGS's indoor "combat pistol league" to practice my CCW (they offer "concealed" and "open" groups) in a non-static square range. It was really fun so I decided I'd try a larger and more advanced competition and found a local USPSA Level I club. I had the gear for several years but never went "official" because I felt I was not good enough and didn't want to look like an idiot. That and the cost to do it regularly can be seen as a hurdle to getting involved.

 

Luckily the club I joined has a new shooter squad every match and puts forth the effort to help you gain experience over the length of a full match there (5-6 stages). Its more friendly and more open to coaching and advice and the squad leader follows you along with the RO helping out if you need and helps keep you safe. After the first few stages, most are very comfortable on their own and get hooked. Since there are no regular USPSA shooters in the squad, there is no ego tripping, no teasing, etc.  Much better experience than just getting tossed into the first open squad.

 

I think the cost scares a lot of folks but they don't realize that a 5-6 stage match is only 100-150 rounds. Some folks also don't want to spend the money on holsters and belts and such either not realizing simple gear works for production. Seems like a lot of curious shooters are simply intimidated.

[drmiller100]

To clarify, the vast majority of people were REALLY friendly and supportive.  They loaned us mag holders (we don't have any yet).  One guy brought a few extra mags for the Buckmark.  They showed us techniques, they were encouraging, they were friendly. 

 

I'm just saying to INTRODUCE people to the sport, a 22 is less intimidating. 

 

More context -last year she started out wanting to be "proficient with a gun".  Pretty vague.  Eventually we learned, and worked, and she wanted to get a carry gun for trips.  She decided on a J-Frame so we practiced with that and a 22 revolver until she was pretty good, and very safe. She got her Enhanced Concealed Weapons permit. Guys teaching the class mocked her "wheel gun" but a LOT of guys who have shot a LOT reaffirmed the 38 special is a great small carry gun. 

 

Fast forward.  She really likes shooting. we got her to shoot a bunch fo guns.  She didn't like the Shield at all, had a great time with the Buckmark, liked the glock 380, and was pretty good with my Glock 23 although she hasn't shot it a lot.   She struggled a bit with the slide, mag changes, but she slows down and is REALLY safe. 

 

The Buckmark isn't intimidating, but it does teach her all the fundamentals.   

 

We are hooked.  We'll be showing up for matches next year with "real guns." 

Edited September 25, 2018 by drmiller100

[HawaiianShirtShooter]

Hey!  I'm pretty new to USPSA, but everywhere I've gone has been incredibly accommodating, especially of new shooters.  Loaner guns, advice, gear, rule bending, etc.  However, in trying to introduce people to the sport, it's a bit intimidating.  I think it's the timer stress and the moving while shooting/reloading.  Most people that have "shot a gun before" it's been static and slow.  A great stepping stone I found was Steel Challenge matches.  Zero to minor movement during a stage, generally no reloads on the fly, but the speed and stress are still there.  AND the .22 is warmly welcomed.  Also, I hate to plug this pistol, but my lady hates all of my semi autos, a friends wife had the S&W Shield EZ in .380 and loved it.  Mostly because she could actually manipulate it easily.  I don't know if it's USPSA legal, but it seems like a great little pistol.

[CHA-LEE]

Generally speaking, "All New Shooters" squads are not very effective on several different levels.....

 

First, the few experienced shooters on the squad are forced to babysit and RO all of the new shooters all day. The experienced shooters match experience is usually a train wreck because they don't have the down time to perform well. They paid their entry fee just like everyone else so its really not fair to force them to sacrifice their match to babysit people all day. Setting the expectations up front that this is a volunteer sport where everyone has to pitch in to help make it happen is important. Putting all of the new shooters on a squad where they are catered to all day by a few experienced shooters sets the totally wrong expectation verses reality.

 

Second, people usually learn best in a "Monkey See, Monkey Do" scenario. Having a couple of new shooters on a squad filled with experienced shooters allows the new shooters to observe and experience how EVERYTHING should be done. The "EVERYTHING" goes well beyond shooting the stage. It encompasses ROing, Resetting, Brassing, Before shooting prep, Post shooting rework, Issue resolution, socialization, etc.

 

Third, observing others perform at skill levels way beyond the new shooters current skill set IS part of this game. Knowing you suck at certain things is required in order to start down the path of improving things. Seeing skills being performed at high levels of performance is also required to accept that humans can actually do that stuff. From a basic competition perspective there can only be 1 winner. Everyone else sucked enough to not allow them to win. Embracing the fact that we all suck to a certain level is a very important factor to accept. This is a game where performance is measured to determine a winner. If you don't like your performance measured then this isn't the game for you. 

 

Forth, If you can't expect a squad full of new shooters to churn through the stages in the same efficient manner as squads with experienced shooters. From a match flow perspective alone you can't have one squad log jamming other squads all day long. Mixing the new shooters in with experienced shooter squads help ensure that the squads will churn through the stages in a normal efficient manner.

Edited September 26, 2018 by CHA-LEE

[broadside72]

The club I was talking about has one guy dedicated to the squad as the "trainer" / "safety guy" and he does it every month. There is a separate experienced shooter acting as RO running the timer.  The main guy seems to enjoy the teaching aspect and he still shoots the stages and does pretty well, as does the RO.  This squad is not to teach USPSA shooting techniques and all the rules but to teach and enforce the safety rules and basic stuff about fault lines, NS targets, etc. Once a shooter has gone through one match in this squad, they are free to shoot whatever squad they want in future matches.  They are not "catered", they pull their weight like everyone else, they just are "overseen" by someone that knows how to show people how to be safe first before being fast. 

 

The noobs brass, take down their stage after the match, patch/tape, reset and a few learn the practiscore app recording scores.  They don't just sit on their asses. They don't RO obviously but they learn the commands and process.

 

Oh, they realize most of them suck. I knew I did, my first classifier was a 6.3% (woot!) I don't think they need to overwhelmed by a squad that is mostly from one team gaming the system or to be shown up so bad that they get frustrated or embarrassed and never come back.  Learning to master being safe is way more important than learning how to game or perform at higher levels. Gotta walk before you can run. I have not been doing this very long at all and when I started I greatly appreciated not being thrown into the deep end without knowing really knowing anything and being able to listen to others ask questions I had not thought to ask myself. 

 

Where I shoot, the noobs have a separate briefing and get a little later start but rarely hold up the stages. In fact, its usually the squads full of PCC guys taking forever to make ready/unload-show-clear or squads that are mostly a team that hold things up due to the incessant BSing causing them to move slow.

[Rnlinebacker]

Everyone isn't competitive and that's really what drives the USPSA craze. Whether it's against friends, yourself or whomever that itch to do things at high speed is scratched in this sport.

I played division 1 college football so golf wasnt going to be the transition for me lol. This sport pulls from all the skills I've already built up from football

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[anonymouscuban]

I will jump in here as someone that wants to shoot USPSA but hasn't. Maybe give you my perspective that could be why others haven't taken the plunge.

Probably the best way to put it is cold feet. At least for me.

I am a relatively new gun owner. I bought my first handgun back in Feb of 2017. I shot a gun for the 1st time just 4 months before that. I now own 4 handguns and an AR-15.

For me, it's not a matter of just owning guns. I love to shoot them. My wife and I hit the range almost every week. Have since before buying the first gun.

We've taken multiple training classes from basic safety to defensive tactical classes. I dry fire practice and practice drawing, acquiring sight picture, reloads on the move, etc. In my backyard with a dry gun or snap caps.

I read a lot about USPSA on this board and other places. I've watched countless videos of matches. I've read the rules multiple times and I may not know them by heart but I understand them for the most part.

I've become a pretty proficient shooter standing still and shooting a paper that doesn't move. I'm safe at handling my weapon. I can draw pretty well, reload and handle malfunctions. No expert by any stretch of the imagination but I know I can run a stage without being a danger to anyone.

I'm not afraid of competition. I'm a competitive person. I played baseball all my life, even into adulthood. I'm basically saying I'm not shy.

I guess even with all this practice and preparation, I am still so hesitant about taking that next step and entering a match. It also doesn't help that I live in Los Angeles, not the most pro-gun place, and don't know anyone that shoots USPSA. The couple of people that I know that own guns probably haven't shot them in a decade.

Long story short, I'm sure I'm not the only noob that wants to shoot USPSA but are too intimidated to start.

Would love to hear from any local guys out here in LaLa Land, especially up in the San Fernando Valley area that shoot USPSA. Maybe I can come out and hang out at a match and meet some of you. Get to see one in person first and then try my hand at one.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[fishhunter3]

I've been shooting this game for more years than I care to think about, and this has always been a problem, so this year my local range decided they wanted a new shooting discipline for its members,  so   started looking into to it, what I found was ASI (action shooting international), this September we held 2 matches on a Wednesday night league, Out of the  2 nights I had 19 new shooters that have never shot any competition before,  after talking to them most said they thought about USPSA an IDPA but it was a bit intimidating but thought the ASI match with its more laid back atmosphere was not,  so far 7 of those people have shot the IDPA match and some want to go to the USPSA matches that are out of town that I shoot,  and I think more new shooters will try the ASI matches this next year, and a percentage of those will move up to the USPSA and IDPA.  

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by fishhunter3

[Rnlinebacker]

I will jump in here as someone that wants to shoot USPSA but hasn't. Maybe give you my perspective that could be why others haven't taken the plunge.

Probably the best way to put it is cold feet. At least for me.

I am a relatively new gun owner. I bought my first handgun back in Feb of 2017. I shot a gun for the 1st time just 4 months before that. I now own 4 handguns and an AR-15.

For me, it's not a matter of just owning guns. I love to shoot them. My wife and I hit the range almost every week. Have since before buying the first gun.

We've taken multiple training classes from basic safety to defensive tactical classes. I dry fire practice and practice drawing, acquiring sight picture, reloads on the move, etc. In my backyard with a dry gun or snap caps.

I read a lot about USPSA on this board and other places. I've watched countless videos of matches. I've read the rules multiple times and I may not know them by heart but I understand them for the most part.

I've become a pretty proficient shooter standing still and shooting a paper that doesn't move. I'm safe at handling my weapon. I can draw pretty well, reload and handle malfunctions. No expert by any stretch of the imagination but I know I can run a stage without being a danger to anyone.

I'm not afraid of competition. I'm a competitive person. I played baseball all my life, even into adulthood. I'm basically saying I'm not shy.

I guess even with all this practice and preparation, I am still so hesitant about taking that next step and entering a match. It also doesn't help that I live in Los Angeles, not the most pro-gun place, and don't know anyone that shoots USPSA. The couple of people that I know that own guns probably haven't shot them in a decade.

Long story short, I'm sure I'm not the only noob that wants to shoot USPSA but are too intimidated to start.

Would love to hear from any local guys out here in LaLa Land, especially up in the San Fernando Valley area that shoot USPSA. Maybe I can come out and hang out at a match and meet some of you. Get to see one in person first and then try my hand at one.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

There's lots of people whom you will befriend but you have to take the first step and go to the match. Find your local match this weekend, take your equipment just in case and just watch & help reset stages if possible

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[broadside72]

11 hours ago, anonymouscuban said:

I will jump in here as someone that wants to shoot USPSA but hasn't. Maybe give you my perspective that could be why others haven't taken the plunge.

Probably the best way to put it is cold feet. At least for me.

I am a relatively new gun owner. I bought my first handgun back in Feb of 2017. I shot a gun for the 1st time just 4 months before that. I now own 4 handguns and an AR-15.

For me, it's not a matter of just owning guns. I love to shoot them. My wife and I hit the range almost every week. Have since before buying the first gun.

We've taken multiple training classes from basic safety to defensive tactical classes. I dry fire practice and practice drawing, acquiring sight picture, reloads on the move, etc. In my backyard with a dry gun or snap caps.

I read a lot about USPSA on this board and other places. I've watched countless videos of matches. I've read the rules multiple times and I may not know them by heart but I understand them for the most part.

I've become a pretty proficient shooter standing still and shooting a paper that doesn't move. I'm safe at handling my weapon. I can draw pretty well, reload and handle malfunctions. No expert by any stretch of the imagination but I know I can run a stage without being a danger to anyone.

I'm not afraid of competition. I'm a competitive person. I played baseball all my life, even into adulthood. I'm basically saying I'm not shy.

I guess even with all this practice and preparation, I am still so hesitant about taking that next step and entering a match. It also doesn't help that I live in Los Angeles, not the most pro-gun place, and don't know anyone that shoots USPSA. The couple of people that I know that own guns probably haven't shot them in a decade.

Long story short, I'm sure I'm not the only noob that wants to shoot USPSA but are too intimidated to start.

Would love to hear from any local guys out here in LaLa Land, especially up in the San Fernando Valley area that shoot USPSA. Maybe I can come out and hang out at a match and meet some of you. Get to see one in person first and then try my hand at one.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

 

Go to https://practiscore.com/search/matches

 

and look for USPSA matches in your area. Find the club info, research them online and then pick on to go watch a match and see how it is run and if it is something you want to partake in. Then sign up for the next match. 

 

Or, find one that has a new shooter squad/course and then the intimidation factor goes down, at least for me it did. 

[Derrick-508]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:59 PM, SCinTX said:

My 16 year old, who is a passionate USPSA shooter, points out that we hang around for four hours to shoot five minutes!  

But in fact he loves the hanging around bit, as well as the shooting.

Awesome!  thats how I got into the sport, my dad making me paste targets until I was big enough to shoot a 1911.