MissionaryMike Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, JWard79 said: The decocker and safety are factory parts that are included from the factory. Although the decocker is factory installed, I do not see how replacing it with the safety is in violation of the rules. When in doubt shoot an email to DRNOI for clarification. Swapping out the decocker for the safety is not a violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I back up that swapping out the decocker for the safety on the P-09 is definitely not a violation as both decocker and safety are factory parts included with the gun.....it remains DA/SA with either Edited January 12, 2017 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHOWARD Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 After the first match with my P09 I swapped back to the decocker. I just felt like it was so much better to have on the line. The pull wasnt noticeably different after the CGW trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I think the issue is he removed material from a factory part, i.e., he modified it. He did more than just swap it out. Removing material, even from a factory part, is not allowed since I can't find it being specifically allowed per the rules. He didn't replace decocker with safety. He removed material from decocker. Edited January 12, 2017 by USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHOWARD Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I doubt he gets called on that. It's literally so little that you could induce that much "wear" on the part against a barrier or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 minute ago, JHOWARD said: I doubt he gets called on that. It's literally so little that you could induce that much "wear" on the part against a barrier or something. Not really the point. He modified a part that is against production rules. No one may notice it, but he will always know. Personally, I'm not okay breaking the rules just 'cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I wasn't providing an opinion on whether he'd be caught or not. I was just trying to correct the record. Contrary to what some are saying, he didn't swap one factory part with another. I agree that that would be fine. He removed material from a factory part. Some people are saying that is illegal for Production Division. I just reviewed the rules, and I think I agree with them since the rules say modifications are not allowed unless specifically authorized. In other words, you can't infer it's legal unless that type of modification is specifically mentioned. No where in the rules does it say you can remove material from a decocker, or for argument sake, a factory safety. The rules also don't say, it's legal unless the RO catches it, but I guess you could say that is the practical result. I didn't look at his pictures so I have no idea how much material he removed. Edited January 12, 2017 by USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHOWARD Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I'm pretty curious about the legality aspect of this. I don't know why it wouldn't be 100% legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Regarding the lanyard loop, I think if he had purchased the plug without the loop and installed it, it might be legal since I believe the lanyard-less plug is standard on the P07, which is production legal. My guess though is others say the way he did it is illegal because instead of replacing it with another factory part, he grinded the loop off. Curious what others think on this. Edited January 12, 2017 by USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, USA said: Regarding the lanyard loop, I think if he had purchased the plug without the loop and installed it, it might be legal since I believe the lanyard-less plug is standard on the P07, which is production legal. My guess though is others say the way he did it is illegal because instead of replacing it with another factory part, he grinded the loop off. Yes. Smoothing the de-cocker changed the profile from that which is factory supplied. By the letter of the rules, it is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) .... removing the lanyard loop off a P-09 is also illegal, swapping it out for one from a P-07 that does not have the lanyard loop is perfectly legal though Edited January 12, 2017 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChef1 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think If I were to end up running this gun in matches I would change to the p07 loop to make it legal. However smoothing out the rough edge on the decocker I don't see as an issue something like that is going to happen over time anyways I didn't change the profile just smoothed out the extra plastic from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHOWARD Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I agree. I think if that is illegal, then you need to start looking at frames under a microscope to make sure there are no nicks or anything that may give someone an unfair advantage. I can understand the rules, but this is a comfort thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChef1 Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 I think I may have found the answer to the Lanyard loop. It appears to me (and I could be wrong) that the P09 urban grey does not have a lanyard loop. As luck would have it I made a deal on one and I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. By looking at pics I can't see the loop on any pics so this might be the answer. The grey is going to be a HD gun so i can swap them if this is the case. Ill let everyone know tomorrow when I pick Up the grey. And yes this is 3 new CZ's in about a month but I sold an M&P compact so that makes it OK in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneBray Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/6/2017 at 1:46 PM, TheChef1 said: Its a lenient club theres a lot of pretty new shooters myself included people are there for fun and to get better. Its a cool group of guys that wouldn't get their panties in a bunch about a small thing like that. One of the requirements of being a USPSA club to hold matches IAW the rules. So the question is how to handle new shooters, get them into the sport, and keep them coming back. To me the best approach is a good new shooter/safety training class before people complete in local matches. The "before" should allow enough time for people to address equipment issues. Part of the class should be focused on equipment rules and proper holster/belt, and positioning of the gear. Work with the shooters to get them in the proper division for their equipment. If your class is held on match day, you most likely will have issues since there is no time to fix some problems. Educate, put them in the best division fit for the gear, let them know what needs to be fixed regarding equipment, and them a month to fix the issues. Then its on them. To allow shooters to violate rules continually is doing the club and USPSA a disservice. There is nothing in the rulebook preventing shooters from having fun, improving their skills, and following the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChef1 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) So the answer is the urban grey plug. I picked mine up yesterday and it does come stock flush without a lanyard loop. No need to use and respring the p 07 one anymore. This one is an SOB to get in thought having a little hanging out makes it way easier but its worth it not to have anything sticking out. Im going to swap some parts around between the two guns. I think I want the FDE one to have the suppressor slide and the grey one to be a comp gun. I might start using that one for 3 gun instead of my M&P. 21 rounds stock is pretty good. Edited January 16, 2017 by TheChef1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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