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Off Hand Rifle


Drbruce

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Practice is the best tip. And I don't say that to be rude. Offhand eats people's lunch. 4x10 knock overs are great practice. But don't just stand and deliver. Get your heart rate up and practice coming into position and engaging targets. Strive for first round hits. Run a drill until you can clean it. Don't compromise.


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  • 3 weeks later...

I tried using a sling once, thinking, "Gee, why has no one thought of this." and half way through the match I was thinking "Gee, this is why no one does this."  It just got in the way and slowed me down, and I really didn't notice a huge gain off-hand.  I tend to practice off-hand (weak and strong side) stability, breathing, and trigger control more than anything but maybe shotgun loading.

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Well, there's the loop, the hasty and the hasty hasty.  I use the hasty.  I can "see" the improvement in crosshair wobble/movement on the target. 

Easy to get in/out of.  Then again, I can take my time to make a shot and I know where the target is.  No sling would be faster, unless you miss some targets because you didn't use the sling.

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  • 1 month later...

This is the thread that got me practicing off hand rifle.  Since Christmas, I've made it to the range a minimum of once a week, usually more.  Dryfiring more often than that.  I've watched Patrick's "Offhand Rifle Shooting Tips" video at least a half dozen times this year.  (Heck, I've watched all of Patrick's videos.)

 

Progress is slow but its there.  Offhand rifle is something I did a lot as a kid but not so much for the past 35 years.  

 

I'm still a long way from being proficient but I've come a long way from where I started.  The approach method is working for me.

 

Thanks.

 

Bill

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  • 2 months later...

After watching a video of myself shooting vs. some top local shooters on a stage with a lot of off hand, I noticed my target transition time was a huge opportunity - getting off target then getting on the next target and breaking a good shot.  

 

Because of this I usually try to include multiple targets in my off hand drills.

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Dryfire practice is ok, however it will not tell you how your rifle handles after the shot has fired (recoil and all that jazz). You really need to get out on the range and work on this one. My normal regiment when I practice rifle is 18inch gong at 200 yards. Reason being is there is a huge 18inch gong at 200 yards already setup :).

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:53 AM, DocMedic said:

Dryfire practice is ok, however it will not tell you how your rifle handles after the shot has fired (recoil and all that jazz). You really need to get out on the range and work on this one. My normal regiment when I practice rifle is 18inch gong at 200 yards. Reason being is there is a huge 18inch gong at 200 yards already setup :).

 

I absolutely agree, I only mentioned dryfire because it can be done when you can't get to the range, it was meant as a supplement to range time, there is no substitute for real practice.

Hurley

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  • 4 months later...
On 12/14/2016 at 7:14 PM, Drbruce said:

Looking for tips to improve off hand rifle shooting.  Thanks, Drbruce

The only two secrets I've learned is to do it a lot and know the accepted level of sight wobble. 

The other technique is the one where rather then try to hold stil which is impossible you actually move the gun in a pattern and break the shot at the sight approaches or enters the acceptable sight picture.  I.e. You move your gun/sights left to right and slowly apply trigger pressure so that the trigger breaks exactly when the sight is on the leading edge of the target.

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On 9/29/2017 at 5:31 AM, JesseTischauser said:

The only two secrets I've learned is to do it a lot and know the accepted level of sight wobble. 

The other technique is the one where rather then try to hold stil which is impossible you actually move the gun in a pattern and break the shot at the sight approaches or enters the acceptable sight picture.  I.e. You move your gun/sights left to right and slowly apply trigger pressure so that the trigger breaks exactly when the sight is on the leading edge of the target.

 

On the topic of 'pass' shooting, which you mention here and I think that is what Patrick Kelley called it in his video, I'm not good at it.  But in my limited practice at long range I have found that if I try to do it, the mistake I always make is thinking I can break the shot when the sights are on-target.  I find I tend to miss consistently 'late', meaning the gun actually fired later than I thought it would, so I am past the target when it goes off.  So what you say of breaking it on the leading edge of target, I think is key.

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Bullseye Pistol and High Power rifle events you learn to hold your wobble.

 

"We" in the practical games must break shots at speed.

 

Beyond off-hand, learning what your wobble looks like when affected by contact with any range prop

is key to shooting well off of props.  You need to see those various "wobbles" and get used to them, so

you can break shots within the new pattens you are seeing.

 

Example, contact at the front of the rifle will have only the rear end in motion.

"C" Clamping against a vertical surface induces other wobble combinations.

Hard contact at the forend vs. hand (flesh) between that contact, changes the sight moment intensity and speed.

 

The point here is, dry fire and live fire every combo you can, so you can "catalog" those moments and get

comfortable with them.  Then you will be breaking shots using the approach method I talk about in the off hand video.

The difference will be comfort in knowing what each patten looks like.

Nothing worse than seeing a pattern for the first time at a Match!

 

 

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I have been searching for this kind of topic. like many I"m too has this problem.  , is it because the rifle a little front heavy?  dont have a very strong support arm. The bbl I have right now is the Rainere Ultra Match 18"  at  2lbs and 3oz. If I can get a bbl around 1.5-1.6 lbs maybe it will help. Faxon Gunner 18" is around 1.6lbs if not mistaken. Thanks

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A lot of my training is off hand at 60-100 meters. I

 

I use hanging 6.6" plates.

 

I do shoot basic drills from a standing position, but it is mostly moving to get heart beat up and also shooting at varying distances ( some paper also mixed in often )

 

Yes, there will be wobble but the grip/stance etc. is what matters.

 

I do grip the rifle pretty firmly with a clamp type grip, but I also try to allow the rifle sort to float ( harder to explain than what it is :)

 

I also now prefer a higher magnification especially at 100 meter off hand, the 8x on the Z8i is an improved over the 6x Kahles in this.

 

 

One thing to really keep in mind, that I have not necessarily done enough, even though moving prior to shooting and shooting from varying types of surfaces.

 

Train for shooting positions where you dont have a perfect stance, ie. around a corner with a fault line, uneven and loose ground. It will have an effect definitely.

At the World Shoot in June, I shot off hand several of the stages that the top guys used safari length bipods for example, not coming out worse specifically due to it.

 

It can be counted from this video of the stages, but IIRC there were not too many misses on the further away off hand targets (#2 was a mess, where I should have used the bipods )
 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

I'm pretty new to 3-Gun and haven't shot a match yet but I am not new to rifle shooting. To go off of Patrick Kelley's post, once you learn your "wobbles" and how it affects your hits (i.e. Shot break v. shot impact), you can then call hits/misses much better. Learning to call your shots is something that takes time but once it is learned you will be more confident in transitioning from shot to shot without watching the plate fall or counting holes in paper. Another comment I have is about magnification, use the minimum magnification you must to call your hits when you break the shot. Magnification magnifies not only the target but also, anywhere other than a bench, the imperfections in your hold/position. For example, you come to a 8" plate rack at 60 yards mid stage, you may have a wobble area of 2 feet. When you turn the magnification from say 3x to 6x you have now doubled the perceived velocity of your wobble, your heartbeat is magnified, and your brain perceives that you have less time to execute the shot even though your wobble is moving the same speed as on 3x and the target is 8". As always, the most important thing is practice.

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A slightly different approach you might look into: I took my daughter to an Appleseed shoot and was really surprised at how much the class imporved my ability to shoot offhand.  Well worth the 2 day investment and actual $ cost is negligible.  

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