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DocMedic

Help me understand why my stage is illegal

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2 minutes ago, racerba said:

Screenshot_20161213-160200.png

 

Each target array on the can be shot from 2 places, locations. But because it is made up of the same targets it only counts as 1 view. So in the picture I uploaded there are 3 views and at least 6 locations. 

The rule is "must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view" 

So you can not require more than 8 shots from any one location and you can not require more than 8 shots per view. 

I don't have a problem with the stage at the start of the thread. As long as the array changes, even just 1 target, it's a new view and you have no issues

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6 hours ago, Kraj said:

Screenshot_20161213-160200.png

 

Each target array on the can be shot from 2 places, locations. But because it is made up of the same targets it only counts as 1 view. So in the picture I uploaded there are 3 views and at least 6 locations. 

The rule is "must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view" 

So you can not require more than 8 shots from any one location and you can not require more than 8 shots per view. 

I don't have a problem with the stage at the start of the thread. As long as the array changes, even just 1 target, it's a new view and you have no issues

Sorry but each end of those walls is a separate view.

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11 hours ago, Sarge said:

Sorry but each end of those walls is a separate view.

View -  A range of sight or vision specific to an array of targets. In order to constitute a new "view" under this rule, the range of sight of an array of targets must be broken by a vision barrier of some sort, such that a different array of targets is seen in the new view.

 

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1 hour ago, Kraj said:

View -  A range of sight or vision specific to an array of targets. In order to constitute a new "view" under this rule, the range of sight of an array of targets must be broken by a vision barrier of some sort, such that a different array of targets is seen in the new view.

 

AND, from the inner ends of the walls you can also see the center array. 

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DocMedic> Your plate rack stage was legal but just barely. When you came around the last forward wall, if you stopped right at the end of the wall all you could see was 8 rounds with of targets (1 Paper, and 6 Plates). Then when you moved 2 - 3 steps forward you could see the two lay down paper targets behind the single barrels. So technically you are not "Forcing" them to shoot more than 8 rounds worth of targets from a single shooting position. But most everyone ran all the way up front and shot more than 8 rounds worth of targets anyway. This could have easily been fixed by putting a double barrel down range in front of the plate rack so all of the plates couldn't have been seen from a single shooting position and basically requiring the shooter to move to the extreme left/right of the forward shooting area to see all of the plates.

The most common misconception about the 8 rounds from a single shooting position is that shooters think that the optimal way of shooting the stage should also be limited to only needing 8 rounds of targets to shoot at. Being forced to shoot more than 8 rounds worth of targets from a single position verses it being a better strategy to shoot more than 8 rounds from a single position are two completely different things. Stage design should never force shooters to engage more than 8 rounds worth of targets from a single position. But the best strategy for the stage may require just that to achieve the best hit factor.

Lastly, any time you design a stage that results in the best "Strategy" for low capacity shooters to do standing reloads, there will be whining.

Edited by CHA-LEE

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1 hour ago, warpcorps said:

Pretty sure 10.7.3 says no whining... or was that wine ing?

I thought it was 1.1.6 but that might just be the one I need to remind shooters about at my matches

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22 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

DocMedic> Your plate rack stage was legal but just barely. When you came around the last forward wall, if you stopped right at the end of the wall all you could see was 8 rounds with of targets (1 Paper, and 6 Plates). Then when you moved 2 - 3 steps forward you could see the two lay down paper targets behind the single barrels. So technically you are not "Forcing" them to shoot more than 8 rounds worth of targets from a single shooting position. But most everyone ran all the way up front and shot more than 8 rounds worth of targets anyway. This could have easily been fixed <snip>

As a CRO, I would say you are exactly correct, but...... why is there any particular reason to 'fix' anything? As a mostly SS shooter, I personally like stages that you have to think a bit about your strengths and your strategy, and also take advantage of your reload practice when it is advantageous to do a balls-fast standing reload.

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The only reason why I suggested to change the stage is that people do whine about that kind of stuff. Creating stages that have a best strategy of doing a standing reload is like forcing kids to eat their vegetables. They will do it but they won't like having to do it. 

Personally I thought that the stage was fun and a reasonable shooting challenge. But then again I shoot Limited and have a lot of BB's to throw around before needing to do a reload.

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On 12/14/2016 at 3:45 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Lastly, any time you design a stage that results in the best "Strategy" for low capacity shooters to do standing reloads, there will be whining.

Quoted for truth!

I shoot production. I b*tch and moan about this all the time.

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