ShortBus Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Bit of a pickle, need some help from the Enos consensus. My (first) open gun will be here Monday. I'm dead set on having popple holes added to it because I want that. Yes that's not a good reason, no, I don't care. Its going to be around the first of the year before I can get the holes done, but I want to shoot her! If I spent all this time load developing will I have to start over once I add the holes? What im looking for out of my open load in order of importance to me: 1. Flat 2. Felt recoil isn't excessive 3. Makes PF without spilling over the case. 1 & 2 vary from person to person, 3 isn't that important because I know with the powders I've chosen to try I will make it. The gun has an akai comp on it that the previous owner says shoots very flat (he was loading 7.2 of WAC under a 124gr) with just the comp, I just like the idea of popple holes and if I can't have fun with my race gun I might as well go back to production. OPTIONS! 1. Work up a load that works good now with just the comp. shoot that and then reavaluate with chrono to make sure I'm still good after the popple holes. 2. Work up a load and shoot now and then re do everything after I add the 2 3/16 popple holes. 3. Just wait till I have the popple holes. Try and get my fix from dryfire. 4. Work up a minor load using a fast powder for your indoor matches that require minor, then after the popple holes work up a major load. Powder i will be using to make a 9 major load: HS-6 Autocomp Silhouette accurate #7 please help me oh great open shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yes, most likely you will want to rework your loads after adding popple holes. it will most likely change the pf and the way the gun feels and tracks in recoil. I'd say if you are dead set on adding holes I wouldn't spend a ton of time on load development. Just find a load that works well enough until you get them drilled. To ME it wouldn't be worth the time spent testing loads just to do it all over. FWIW I load HS6 under a 115 with no popple holes. I don't have spillage issues, but it's close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yea I'm leaning towards using his load and checking it to make sure it's good at my temp/alt and then reavaluate loads after the popples get added. I will be testing 124 and 115 grain projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hello: Since you figured out you need popple holes why are you asking about loads? Just questioning why you need them when you haven't even shot the gun to see how it shoots? If you add the holes you will need more powder to make major so it will be harder on the hand and it may not shoot flatter. I say work up a load without the holes and shoot it for at least 3000 rounds. Then decide what you want to do. This may seem harsh but I have seen people do this before and make a perfectly good running open pistol into something that is less than perfect. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: Since you figured out you need popple holes why are you asking about loads? Just questioning why you need them when you haven't even shot the gun to see how it shoots? If you add the holes you will need more powder to make major so it will be harder on the hand and it may not shoot flatter. I say work up a load without the holes and shoot it for at least 3000 rounds. Then decide what you want to do. This may seem harsh but I have seen people do this before and make a perfectly good running open pistol into something that is less than perfect. Thanks, Eric So how do I tell if I like popple holes?? Buy another slide and barrel, cut holes and see? If inshoot a gun with popples that isn't mine how can I be sure what I like/don't like isn't attributed to the comp/gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said: work up a load without the holes and shoot it for at least 3000 rounds. Then decide what you want to do. ^^^^^^ And, to think, you didn't even have to pay for this great advice ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Unless you sent $25 to Brian to keep this Forum going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 How does one decide they want popple holes with any other reason than they "want" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 minute ago, ShortBus said: How does one decide they want popple holes with any other reason than they "want" them. Hello: Let other shooters shoot your gun and film it to see what it handles like. You have some very good shooters in your area and they will be very helpful. Take some video of you shooting as well to see how you compare to the other shooters. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 What happened to your last Open gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 48 minutes ago, wgj3 said: What happened to your last Open gun? Tried to popple hole myself and went to far. Didn't have my drill press stop set and it went through the barrel and frame. Scrapped it and bought another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I have two open guns. One is comp only; the other comp plus two 3/16" poppels. I developed loads for the comp only gun, because that was my first. My loads make 172PF. The same load makes PF in the two popple gun, but lower. 0.2gr WAC brings it back up to 172. The comp only gun shoots softer, by a lot. The dot tracks beautifully, but the muzzle does rise a touch more than the poppel gun. The popple gun hits the hands a lot harder, but is flatter. I use WAC and Silhouette for both. If I wanted to get the poppel gun to shoot softer, I'd have to go to HS-6, or possibly something a tiny bit slower to generate the gas the poppels robbed from the comp. Even though there is a decided difference between them, I still can't decide which I like better. The comp only gun feels like cheating. If it wasn't for the big blast, you would think you were shooting a 22. The poppeled gun hits the hands harder, so you know you are shooting a center fire, but the hit is not as much as from a Limited gun. Shoot your original Open load and see how you like it. Try some HS-6 or #7 development. If you end up generating so much gas it jets out the front and increases recoil, add poppels to get it flatter. The one thing you will learn for certain is how poppels affect dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abb1 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I do not see the necessity of popple holes. Your comp should do the work and the price of popples is a reduced velocity resulting in a higher powder charge with no little or no difference. I say little to no difference depending on your comp design as you want the high pressured gasses exiting out of the end of the gun, not center to end. You are using more powder to make major and this creates more gasses countering this effect, but does not improve it. Aircooled6racer's suggestion with developing a good load and shooting it for 3000 rounds is sound advice and that is what I would recommend. You want a gun that is reliable and shoots flat. People tend to do to much to some of these guns with ill results, I have seen it too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) Work up a load and shoot. After adding popples pull out the chrono and just start from where you are and work up more if needed. Edited December 11, 2016 by theWacoKid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 21 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: Since you figured out you need popple holes why are you asking about loads? Just questioning why you need them when you haven't even shot the gun to see how it shoots? If you add the holes you will need more powder to make major so it will be harder on the hand and it may not shoot flatter. I say work up a load without the holes and shoot it for at least 3000 rounds. Then decide what you want to do. This may seem harsh but I have seen people do this before and make a perfectly good running open pistol into something that is less than perfect. Thanks, Eric This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 I just wanted to know how different a load would be from nonpopple to popple. If I build a load for the non popple gun and it's really dialed in, is that still gonna be a really good load with popple holes. Im gonna go shoot it. And then let somebody else shoot it. And then guess if popple holes will help or hurt it. I don't really like change so I'm guessing once I start shooting it the chances of me changing it up will go down, it may never see popple holes, who knows. I just think they are cool and I want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 5 hours ago, ShortBus said: I just wanted to know how different a load would be from nonpopple to popple. If I build a load for the non popple gun and it's really dialed in, is that still gonna be a really good load with popple holes. Im gonna go shoot it. And then let somebody else shoot it. And then guess if popple holes will help or hurt it. I don't really like change so I'm guessing once I start shooting it the chances of me changing it up will go down, it may never see popple holes, who knows. I just think they are cool and I want them. Poole holes will really bleed off velocity. If you drill it prepare to develope new loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Tried to popple hole myself and went to far. Didn't have my drill press stop set and it went through the barrel and frame. Scrapped it and bought another. I am going to do them for him on my mill this time. Once xmas is over and I have a life again lol.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Double tap Edited December 12, 2016 by ShortBus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, MrPostman said: I am going to do them for him on my mill this time. Once xmas is over and I have a life again lol. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk It's too late mrpostman, I bought a drill press from harbor freight and some of their really good drill bits. Didn't have 3/16 in the HSS but it's close enough. use a vice to hold the pistol? Leave it together and drill through the slide and the barrel at the same time to make sure it stays lined up? Not much info online about making popple holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 It's too late mrpostman, I bought a drill press from harbor freight and some of their really good drill bits. Didn't have 3/16 in the HSS but it's close enough. use a vice to hold the pistol? Leave it together and drill through the slide and the barrel at the same time to make sure it stays lined up? Not much info online about making popple holes. Well first thing you would want to do is remove the complete upper, then put that in the vise, measure the shit out of it so everything is lined up as close as possible, then remove the firing pin and FP stop, put a light in or behind the FP channel so you have some light so you can see when the drill goes through the upper part of the barrel so you don't go too far, then use a center punch on the top of the slide to mark where the drill bit should start (you dont have to do this step on a mill) so the bit doesn't try to walk when you first start drilling, then stand where you can see inside the barrel and make your holes.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) That sounds like a lot. If the slide frame fit is tight can I not leave it together? It shouldn't move should it? I've got a shard dremel attachment I'm gonna use to get a dimple/starting hole. Edited December 12, 2016 by ShortBus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I just machined slot in slide to match my desired hole layout, assembled gun, measured barrel in relation to finished slot, indicated the barrel in the mill for zero, yaw, and pitch, center drilled holes, finish drilled to size, chamfered, and done. About an hour. If you do this in a drill press you will have a rougher less precise product but it should be functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 So, you have an open gun that is admittedly already quite flat according to the original owner, that you haven't shot yet, that you haven't video-ed in high speed, haven't had anyone else shoot, haven't messed with different spring combinations, and would rather drill holes in your gun using a drill press instead of a mill without even taking the proper recommended steps? Just clarifying, it seems like a great idea. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said: it seems like a great idea. Have to agree - logic is logic, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'm not drilling holes in my gun with a drill press. I was kidding.. weak troll is weak. Im gonna shoot it for a little bit before I have them properly milled by a competent person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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