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robertg5322

PCC Rack on Cart Legal

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Carts are pretty cool (I have one myself), but a good gun case in one hand, and an ammo bag in the other, is hard to beat.

We have rifle racks, located off to the side of each bay, at two of the ranges where I shoot. It's really easy to move to a new stage, un-case the carbine toward a side berm, put it in the rack, then wait for my turn at bat. 

When the stage is over we case-up and head for the next stage. 

Edited by MikieM

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Some matches will not allow muzzle up. Muzzle down is less likely to cause sweeping when handling. 

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7 minutes ago, mitommy said:

Some matches will not allow muzzle up. Muzzle down is less likely to cause sweeping when handling. 

And then a club decides to dictate muzzle up only!

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1 hour ago, mitommy said:

Some matches will not allow muzzle up. Muzzle down is less likely to cause sweeping when handling. 

Not sure why that would be. Muzzle up in cart, when you go to handle, you simply lift gun up  and carry to start position.

 

Muzzle down you have to pick up gun from cart, rotate gun to get muzzle up, or carry to line with muzzle facing down (cumbersome), rotate it to get ready, load, etc. And at the end of the stage, it's muzzle up after flag. 

 

 

 

 

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Don't know if anyone here shoots CAS but our longguns are carried to a rack on the range or put on our carts at our vehicle with actions OPEN, muzzles up. We dont use flags. They stay that way until we carry them to the loading table where the rifle actions are closed hammer down on an empty chamber and the tubular magazines are loaded with the correct number of rds needed for the stage. In Wild bunch the 1897 pump shotguns magazine is also loaded with the correct number of rds and the hammer is down on the mty chamber. (Shotguns are staged mty in non WildBunch shoots and are loaded on the clock.) When the shooter is called to the line he stages his long guns and on the timers command shoots the stage. After being shot each longgun is staged mty, action open, safely pointed down range. At the end of the stage the shooter carries his mty guns to the unloading table, verifies his long guns ( 2 pistols also) are mty and puts the long guns back where they were with the actions open. Muzzles are up most of the time, when he lowers the muzzle it is pointed at the side berm at the loading or unloading tables or down range. The only time that a gun is cleared on the line is in Wild bunch where the 1911 is cleared and holstered ala IPSC. I agree with a previous post, if I'm getting swept accidentally I'd rather be able to see the flag on a cleared gun outside of a bag rather than not be able to see the action of a bagged rifle. 

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I've only been shooting PCC for about two months now.  Like many others, my roots started in 3gun.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong?  I leave the PCC bagged and when it's my turn to shoot, I unbag the rifle and carry it muzzle down with chamber flag to the line.  After shooting and chamber flagging, I carry it muzzle down and bag for the next stage.

Are there shooters who are carrying the bag to the line and un-bagging there?

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I have mine bagged when I show up to the range, goto the safe area and un-bag and load on cart muzzle up with chamber flag installed. I leave them in the cart rest of day, when our turn to shoot just remove from cart muzzle up and walk to the line and your ready to go. At end of stage reinstall flag, muzzle up and  place back on cart after scoring. They are very vertical and if you are getting swept by the barrel you should get of my back as I am getting tired of carrying you lol.

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All the clubs I shoot at require- flag in chamber- PCC is to be handled muzzle down-

Or keep in bag till at the box- and still have flag- and muzzle down range-

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On 1/7/2018 at 4:49 PM, Baltimoreed said:

Coming from the CAS shooting sports where you carry multiple longguns (a rifle and a sg with a backup sometimes), wear a couple of pistols and need ammunition for them plus food and drink, gun carts are the only way to go. Just roll from stage to stage, the actions are always open with muzzles pointed up or down,  imo a lot easier than wrestling an ar bag, range bag with ammo and mags, lunch and a cooler. And time you lay all those range and rifle bags all over the berm you've occupied as much space as gun carts would use. My current cart is very simple and works fine.

This /

I use a baby stroller type cart, with the PCC in a rack, muzzle down

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Muzzle up makes more sense, if I carry a rifle muzzle down I sweep myself every step. 

 

Go from your cart to muzzle up and sweep no one. 

 

CAS has a great safety record. So I’d say those guys have good advice. 

 

But hey. Have fun and don’t point your rifle at anyone. 

 

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On 12/13/2016 at 11:09 PM, Sarge said:

"Relatively" safe direction? Maybe that's why staying bagged may happen?

A visible gun with a flag in the chamber means to me  there is no way the  gun is loaded.

A gun in a bag tells me nothing.

Last year a shooter came to the line and un- bagged. Make ready, out came a rd. D.Q.

Flag would have prevented it.

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We are in the process of building carbine racks for each outdoor bay.  Prototype pictures below.

The legs are 4x4 and the boards are 2x12.  We have a significant amount of wind on our range as the 65' tall berms act like reverse chimneys, pulling the wind down to the range floor.  We didn't want the carbine racks to be blown over so they are build like a tank.  It takes two people to move it around.... empty.  They are going to be placed up against the side berm on the bays.  We borrowed the design from the Livingston Gun Club as they have been shooting 3-gun for years and just beefed up the materials.  The support boards are 20" apart so the SBR's will still fit with about a 2" hangover on each end.  If anyone wants drawings with dimensions, they are available in a SketchUp file.  Send me a PM with your e-mail address.

 

This is the 3 gun cart from Rugged Gear used to transport the PCC.  The carbine is angled toward the ground and held in place by two supports with a Velcro strap over each.

 

BC

Pic2 - PCC Rack.jpeg

Pic1 - PCC Rack.jpeg

Gun Cart.jpg

Edited by BillChunn

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2 hours ago, BillChunn said:

 

We are in the process of building carbine racks for each outdoor bay.  Prototype pictures below.

The legs are 4x4 and the boards are 2x12.  We have a significant amount of wind on our range as the 65' tall berms act like reverse chimneys, pulling the wind down to the range floor.  We didn't want the carbine racks to be blown over so they are build like a tank.  It takes two people to move it around.... empty.  They are going to be placed up against the side berm on the bays.  We borrowed the design from the Livingston Gun Club as they have been shooting 3-gun for years and just beefed up the materials.  The support boards are 20" apart so the SBR's will still fit with about a 2" hangover on each end.  If anyone wants drawings with dimensions, they are available in a SketchUp file.  Send me a PM with your e-mail address.

 

This is the 3 gun cart from Rugged Gear used to transport the PCC.  The carbine is angled toward the ground and held in place by two supports with a Velcro strap over each.

 

BC

Pic2 - PCC Rack.jpeg

Pic1 - PCC Rack.jpeg

Gun Cart.jpg

Nice idea but I would make them as high off the ground as feasible to keep blowing "wind dirt" off them.

Kind of like a pre-load table.

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18 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

Nice idea but I would make them as high off the ground as feasible to keep blowing "wind dirt" off them.

Kind of like a pre-load table.

We have grass covering a majority of the range.  The legs are 30" tall so the carbines are at 36".  The photos are a bit misleading.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

BC

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46 minutes ago, BillChunn said:

We have grass covering a majority of the range.  The legs are 30" tall so the carbines are at 36".  The photos are a bit misleading.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

BC

Sounds like you got it right.

Nice job.

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On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:40 AM, BillChunn said:

We have a significant amount of wind on our range as the 65' tall berms act like reverse chimneys, pulling the wind down to the range floor. 

 

You have berms sixty-five FEET tall?!?  :surprise:  That must be like shooting in an alley between tall buildings.

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 12:14 PM, robertg5322 said:

 

 

Nobody came to this conclusion, so it appears my concern was unwarranted. I also asked the powers-that-be at my range and they approved of the design.

Some clubs prefer muzzle down.

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On 2/8/2018 at 2:23 PM, JAFO said:

 

You have berms sixty-five FEET tall?!?  :surprise:  That must be like shooting in an alley between tall buildings.

When they built the I-696 freeway through the Detroit suburbs, they needed to dump the dirt somewhere.  We got it.  This Google Earth picture was taken from Dequindre road so it doesn't really show the height and it only shows part of 1 berm.  For perspective, there is actually someone walking in the picture.  The berm starts about a quarter mile away.  What is shown are the trap fields, not the pistol range.  That's on the other side of the berm.

 

BC

DSC Berm.JPG

Edited by BillChunn

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:33 PM, mitommy said:

Some matches will not allow muzzle up. Muzzle down is less likely to cause sweeping when handling. 

My club made a rule, just for me, dictating "muzzle up" only.  I say it was just for me because I was the only shooter that ever carried muzzle down to and from the stages.  It can't have had anything to do with the fact that the guy that proposed the rule was #2 in the standings, and the second was #3 in the standings (to my #1) 🤣 

This year he got a rule made for himself, though, specifically allowing a micro-roni pistol brace (without the long barrel that turns it into a carbine) to be allowed in PCC class...🙄.   I still beat him though...😆

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At our club we have carts, muzzle down and up and also carts and bags, the guys with bags take much longer if they take the bag to the table. We make sure everyone goes to the line up or down it’s not a issue at all . Requiring bags will just slow down the match.

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On 12/9/2016 at 6:51 PM, robertg5322 said:

And don't you just love the California compliant grip wrap?

If you want to make your CA compliant, you need to get the resurgent arms grip, extended 45 degree safety, and the ergonomic end plate to protect your hand from the castle nut.  I put one on all my ARs including my 3-gun  and my PCC .  I think it works really well.  As close as a pistol grip as you can get.  https://resurgentarms.com

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1 hour ago, S&W627shooter said:

If you want to make your CA compliant, you need to get the resurgent arms grip, extended 45 degree safety, and the ergonomic end plate to protect your hand from the castle nut.  I put one on all my ARs including my 3-gun  and my PCC .  I think it works really well.  As close as a pistol grip as you can get.  https://resurgentarms.com

 

Got one set up with the Magpul MIAD grip and the Strike Industries Grip Fin, the other with a Resurgent Arms grip. The safety lever leave a bit to be desired, the detent is mushy and it feels loose, and required quite a bit of fitting (the flat was to high, had to file it down quite a bit), but it works for now. Next year I'll be leaving the state, and that stuff will be a bad memory.

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16 hours ago, robertg5322 said:

 

Got one set up with the Magpul MIAD grip and the Strike Industries Grip Fin, the other with a Resurgent Arms grip. The safety lever leave a bit to be desired, the detent is mushy and it feels loose, and required quite a bit of fitting (the flat was to high, had to file it down quite a bit), but it works for now. Next year I'll be leaving the state, and that stuff will be a bad memory.

You should contact Will Katz at Resurgent.  I got a bad safety, and he replaced it with one that worked perfectly.  I have 5 ARs set up with his grips and safeties.  

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44 minutes ago, S&W627shooter said:

You should contact Will Katz at Resurgent.  I got a bad safety, and he replaced it with one that worked perfectly.  I have 5 ARs set up with his grips and safeties.  

I did contact him when my first two didn't work. Second two were loose. I fixed the first two, and they work wemm enough.

 

Not slamming Resurgent, just stating facts. The grip is first rate in mil-spec lowers, not on New Frontier lowers though 

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