Deadcoyote Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 So many folks, like me, shoot limited in California. Our laws were set up so if you owned hi cap mags prior to the year 2000 you can still have/use them. Prop 63 passed which outlaws all hi caps in state and requires they be sold out of state or surrendered by 1/1/18. I'm guessing limited and open will just not be offered in CA? I'm bummed, we've been talking about it at the club trying to figure it out. Didn't know if any of you guys are in a similar situation in other states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why would they not be offered? You'd just have to use 10 round mags. They're already doing that in some states like NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, Deadcoyote said: So many folks, like me, shoot limited in California. Our laws were set up so if you owned hi cap mags prior to the year 2000 you can still have/use them. Prop 63 passed which outlaws all hi caps in state and requires they be sold out of state or surrendered by 1/1/18. I'm guessing limited and open will just not be offered in CA? I'm bummed, we've been talking about it at the club trying to figure it out. Didn't know if any of you guys are in a similar situation in other states. Actually, SB 1446 already outlawed possession. 63 was just that twit Newsome wasting money and time with redundant legislation to get face time on TV. But that's not important right now. No one is sure how the law will be implemented and how it will be enforced, if at all. But USPSA has rule 3.3.1 to deal with the situation. We can shoot open here just like in Hawaii, Canada, etc. Limited could be offered as well as L-10 giving sandbaggers a division to hide in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Hold on to them while the lawsuit and injunction that are likely coming are pending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Southpaw said: Why would they not be offered? You'd just have to use 10 round mags. They're already doing that in some states like NY. Limited with 10 round mags would be Limited 10. Folks in NY are competitively shooting Open with 10 round mags? I can't believe those scores are as good as they could be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 minute ago, mreed911 said: Limited with 10 round mags would be Limited 10. Folks in NY are competitively shooting Open with 10 round mags? I can't believe those scores are as good as they could be... Even with a 10 round limit Limited and L10 would still be different divisions. So you could shoot both for classification purposes... or as Chuck said so you can be a sandbagger in one of them . In NY everyone shoots 10 round mags in Open so it's equally competitive for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadcoyote Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 I'm lucky as I have an employment exemption, so I won't have to get rid of mags. Honestly my understanding of the enforcement end of it is possession of a hi cap will be an infraction cite only and carry a max penalty of a $109 fine. When you consider how rare it is to have LE contact it seems like a no brainer to keep your mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 27 minutes ago, Southpaw said: In NY everyone shoots 10 round mags in Open so it's equally competitive for everyone. Except for the classifier scores which are compared nationally. Granted I can't think of a single classifier where mag capacity > 10 rounds would matter (e.g. where an Open shooter wouldn't be forced to do a reload by design, anyway), but that would be the only comparative difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Welcome to Open 10. You'll learn how to reload. Break down stages a little different. Not that big a deal. Still fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryridesmotox Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) California and it's legislatures like to make examples, in order to continue their propaganda ideologies. If anyone thinks there won't be at least one sweep or some form of checkpoint at a match, they've got you fooled. I agree, they don't have the manpower to continually enforce the mag law, and I'm certain it'll likely only be an "add-on" for other charges - but I'm telling you, they're going to make one, somewhere, at some point... And OP, you may want to double check when that law goes into effect... -ARy Edited November 28, 2016 by ryridesmotox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Even with an exemption, standard-capacity magazines won't be permitted at CA matches. Additionally, the MD does not have to offer all divisions... they can just decide to nix Limited and only offer L10 (unless they deem it valuable to keep Limited, such as for folks to get classified). Sucks all the way around. Fingers crossed the new President will Make the Supreme Court Great Again and all this nonsense will be nullified forthwith. Edited November 29, 2016 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Open10 is alive and well in NY so I suspect it will survive in CA just fine.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Thunder Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 But, but don't the people who compete in NY and CA feel so much safer using 10-round magazines at their matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 The way I read the Prop, this takes effect until July 1, 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryridesmotox Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Distant Thunder said: But, but don't the people who compete in NY and CA feel so much safer using 10-round magazines at their matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 9 hours ago, Deadcoyote said: I'm lucky as I have an employment exemption, so I won't have to get rid of mags. Honestly my understanding of the enforcement end of it is possession of a hi cap will be an infraction cite only and carry a max penalty of a $109 fine. When you consider how rare it is to have LE contact it seems like a no brainer to keep your mags. But, could the act of being caught with illegal magazines be enough for a search of a residence? Just like the whole high cap mag permit thing. Does the permit only cover the named, or all employees, and only at place of business, or at matches? I don't want to be the test case. Seiichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34PER Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Everyone always says "the rules state if the legal capacity is 10 rounds then that's what the division adjusts to." However, this makes no sense. your classifier scores get input into the limited/open division where your compared against people with much higher capacities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, R34PER said: Everyone always says "the rules state if the legal capacity is 10 rounds then that's what the division adjusts to." However, this makes no sense. your classifier scores get input into the limited/open division where your compared against people with much higher capacities. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think there are many (if any) classifiers that have strings of fire beyond 6 or 8 rounds without requiring a reload. Even so, there are enough that DO that you can still use those and be competitive nationally with your "Open10" scores because even in states with 30+ round mags you're still only taking 8-ish shots before having to reload per stage rules on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 hours ago, R34PER said: Everyone always says "the rules state if the legal capacity is 10 rounds then that's what the division adjusts to." However, this makes no sense. your classifier scores get input into the limited/open division where your compared against people with much higher capacities. Not many classifiers allow for more than ten rounds before a mandatory reload. And I have a funny feeling MDs in ban states choose not to run those few classifiers that do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadcoyote Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 16 hours ago, itchy said: But, could the act of being caught with illegal magazines be enough for a search of a residence? Just like the whole high cap mag permit thing. Does the permit only cover the named, or all employees, and only at place of business, or at matches? I don't want to be the test case. Seiichi I'm not certain how all of this will shake out. If you look at municipalities that previously banned all hi caps in California (LA & Sunnyvale) no one turned in their mags and nothing really came of it. I guess if anything it's an excuse to buy a 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34PER Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 6 hours ago, mreed911 said: As I mentioned earlier, I don't think there are many (if any) classifiers that have strings of fire beyond 6 or 8 rounds without requiring a reload. Even so, there are enough that DO that you can still use those and be competitive nationally with your "Open10" scores because even in states with 30+ round mags you're still only taking 8-ish shots before having to reload per stage rules on those. That's with a perfect run. If I have 30 rounds and I'm calling my shots I can throw an extra shots on the targets so I don't drop points. Where as someone who has just enough rounds can't. It's the same argument people make against .45 double stack guns in limited/open. You may have enough rounds, but having more always gives you more options to improve your run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 17 minutes ago, R34PER said: That's with a perfect run. If I have 30 rounds and I'm calling my shots I can throw an extra shots on the targets so I don't drop points. Where as someone who has just enough rounds can't. It's the same argument people make against .45 double stack guns in limited/open. You may have enough rounds, but having more always gives you more options to improve your run. Most if not all classifiers are Virginia count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 On 11/28/2016 at 0:56 PM, mreed911 said: Except for the classifier scores which are compared nationally. Granted I can't think of a single classifier where mag capacity > 10 rounds would matter (e.g. where an Open shooter wouldn't be forced to do a reload by design, anyway), but that would be the only comparative difference. https://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/cm99-57.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 28 minutes ago, d_striker said: https://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/cm99-57.pdf The point? I didn't say there weren't any. I said there were enough that Open shooters in restricted states can still get valid classifier scores without any problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, mreed911 said: The point? I didn't say there weren't any. I said there were enough that Open shooters in restricted states can still get valid classifier scores without any problem. No point. You said you couldn't "think of a single classifier." I was just giving an example of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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