My switch from plastic to Tanfo

[IronArcher]

I think the REAL problem is we keep shooting for lighter and lighter pull.
Yes some barrels need reaming, but save for that, running a 14# spring and a polish job should let the gun run most anything.
That said, yes, I am doing all I can to run the 13# spring.


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[MemphisMechanic]

Okay. We have a diagnosis. It isn't an over-fit firing pin block, which ARy and I thought was possible.

That leaves... primers and hammer spring strength.

I went through 200 rounds tonight, decocking the hammer 200 times. (Not terribly fun.) After the first "click" on a double-action pull, I took the block and it's spring out of the side and continued to run another 175 rounds through it. The malfunction ratio was identical to what I've experienced with the block installed. (I brought some of my old 135BBI/1.070"/CCI primed ammo with me, just to be sure.)

Before the range trip, I shimmed the stop for my 650's primer ram upward 1/16" with a small piece of sheetmetal and loaded 100 rounds this way. I reduced my light strike ratio to 1 in 50 rounds on CCI primers in mixed-headstamp brass. That's about 20% of what I was experiencing before, when it would go "click" about once per magazine if every shot was fired DA. There's always some variation in primer depth on a 650, but this does seem to drive them all a bit deeper.

Here's the shim I'm referring to:

So... now that I know what's going on, I have two possible futures:

   1. I find that the PD firing pin will let me light the ammo coming off of my press, and I stick with their 14 pound hammer spring.

   2. I switch to a Wolff 14 pound spring, or an EG Medium spring. Per Johnbu, those are both heavier than the 14# PD but they also make the trigger stack again.

Remember that as soon as the gun makes it through a match without problems, I'm going to start feeding it magnum CCI primers. If I hand-primed my ammo, switched to Win or Federal primers, or immediately converted to a 1050, I'd have a perfectly reliable gun. As much as I want (and plan) to convert to a 1050, that's not happening anytime soon.

This gun has to learn to love the same ammo every other 9mm I own consumes without complaint. I don't particularly mind if it winds up with an 8# /3.75# trigger in order to accomplish that goal. I'm not trying to constantly play with springs in order to drop my pull weight. This gun's job is to run flawlessly in matches, and I've never been able to tell a 4 pound trigger from a 7 pounder once the timer goes off. Trigger weight is something to argue about on the internet and it doesn't affect your match placement, as long as it's reasonable and the action is smooth.

The PD firing pin and the Wolff/EG Medium hammer springs will all be here in about a week. We'll see what the winning combination turns out to be.

Edited December 23, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[tedahlenius85]

3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Here's the shim I'm referring to:

I did that to my 650 aswell. Before that simple mod my primers were set at .001-.003, now they're at .005-.007. Never had to worry about primer deapth with my old CZ, but now with the Tanfo I have to. Thanks to ARy for making me aware of primer deapth for more reliability :).

[tedahlenius85]

Ted, how's the gun running? Long time, no talk, bro! Hope all is well.

Its running 100% on Fiocchi primers with Xtreme delta hammer. As long as primers are seated far enough All is well over here, thank you bro!

[MemphisMechanic]

20 minutes ago, tedahlenius85 said:

 

Its running 100% on Fiocchi primers with Xtreme delta hammer. As long as primers are seated far enough All is well over here, thank you bro!

 

What hammer spring weight are you running?

Edited December 23, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[MemphisMechanic]

With 500 rounds through gun after the second round of polishing - a grand total of around 1,500 rounds - the trigger weight has come down a bit:

(14lb PD hammer spring. PD springs at trigger, sear, firing pin. Bolo. Titan hammer.)

[Sniperboy]

That is awesome MM.  Really inspiring : ) I broke down and just bought all the goodies at the last PDO sale.  Keep on positing your progress.

Just for the record since I know I was looking for the answer in the past and did not find it and for the benefit of others - the 1 piece sear alone (I got a good deal on an Xtreme so I tried that instead of the EAA for now) deactivates the stock FPB (tho I read this to be the case), but I was still able to use the thumb safety without needing to fit.  It must be the Titan hammer that necessitates the fitting of the sear to the thumb safety.  For some reason I do not think the 1 piece sear reduced my DA pull.  In fact it increased it (by .5 lbs )??   Which is counter intuitive since I deleted one extra spring re: the 2 piece sear.  Frustrating.  But then again my DA pull is all over the place.  It did reduce my SA pull slightly tho.  So I will take that as academic data for my instance.

Anyways I am waiting for parts and plan to do the mods one at a time so I don't focus on a certain item when I know pampering it yields little benefit.  A habit from working on plastic fantastics.  Merry Christmas.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Sniperboy

[IronArcher]

Wondering why the 1pc sear deactivates your FPB.
The come standard in the Lim Pro, but the FPB works perfectly.


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[Sniperboy]

Does the Lim Pro come with an extended FPB or a 1 piece sear out the box?  I am not sure myself.  Mine came with a 2 piece sear.  I put the 2-piece sear back to compare pulls with the 1-piece for acedemic purposes..  playing 1-2 piece sear musical chairs was not as horrible an exercise as I thought.

Verified the quote below 2 days ago for my platform.  Glad I bit the bullet and bought an extended FPB.

On 12/21/2016 at 5:03 PM, ryridesmotox said:

The extended firing pin block is required with the one piece sear. Otherwise 4th block will not block the pin. The two piece sear interacts with the block differently. 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Sniperboy

[MemphisMechanic]

Are you working on a stock2, @Sniperboy ?

Yes the Limited Pro comes with a one piece sear and the extended firing pin block, from what I've been told.

[Sniperboy]

Yes I am working on a Stock2.  I had the opportunity to purchase one that was pre-tuned at a premium.  I opted to buy an unmodified one and do the work myself.  Now I know why there was a premium : ).  To think I was saying a few weeks ago how bored I was.  Not anymore.  sure cuts down on my weekend beers. 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Sniperboy

[ryridesmotox]

Damn, Oakland, who did you have to bribe to get one up there? That is like the most communist area of this communist hell hole

[Sniperboy]

I'd make a bend over joke but I don't want people to take it literally!

[Jeff O]

On 12/20/2016 at 1:58 PM, ryridesmotox said:

Rofl offensive. Ok bud... Here is another edited for you. I'll send you a box of safety pins before I lost next time.

If I have to shoot one I'll quit. (This from a GSSF MD).

[ryridesmotox]

8 minutes ago, Sniperboy said:

I'd make a bend over joke but I don't want people to take it literally!

By literally, do you mean anally? ROFL

[Sniperboy]

You are not subtle my friend. That's why mods love to censor you!

but yes during the one shot exemption time one could get a tanfo imported. Now that this "loophole" is closed the ones in State go for mad money. 

So to those who live in a free state do count your blessings. It's very difficult to get certain pistols in CA. 

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, Sniperboy said:

Yes I am working on a Stock2.  I had the opportunity to purchase one that was pre-tuned at a premium.  I opted to buy an unmodified one and do the work myself.  Now I know why there was a premium : ).  To think I was saying a few weeks ago how bored I was.  Not anymore.  sure cuts down on my weekend beers. 

You make it sounds like it takes more than one fairly leisurely evening to get the parts in the gun.

[johnbu]

A guy should be able to do things like swap hammer springs in a minute or so...  http://youtu.be/Z1HzWwNYV0U

 

[Sniperboy]

Oh I've taken it apart many times. I even hear an Australian voice in my head when I do it! Not as fast as John tho. He's like a one man professional pit crew. 

[ryridesmotox]

He can do it fast... but can he do it blindfolded? Maybe I'll rock that video next... or maybe not, don't want to scratch the gun trying to figure out where the ambi safety roll pin is rofl

[MemphisMechanic]

I want to watch you pull one apart blindfolded.

You have to keep the blindfold on while trying to find the mag catch spring's plunger, though.

[johnbu]

I was going to do it blind folded, but my seeing eye dog thought it was a chew toy. 

1 hour ago, ryridesmotox said:

He can do it fast... but can he do it blindfolded? Maybe I'll rock that video next... or maybe not, don't want to scratch the gun trying to figure out where the ambi safety roll pin is rofl

 

[ryridesmotox]

5 minutes ago, johnbu said:

I was going to do it blind folded, but my seeing eye dog thought it was a chew toy. 

 

You don't even want to know the things my dogs have thought were chew toys

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Parts changes made in search of a 100% gun:

1. Switched from an 8-lb longslide recoil spring to a 10 pounder. In line with others saying fun things like "I have two 8 pound wolff springs and they aren't even the same length"... The 10 pound feels half again as strong as the 8.

Good. I was having feeding issues with SWC rounds at the indoor range in slow fire. Twice the gun fired then hung, and after about a half second it snapped forward into battery. That's interesting, and not in a good way. I'd switched back to the factory spring with three coils cut to get by. We will see if the 10 pound spring is the ticket.
(Factory recoil spring weight is14 lbs by the way. I saw that somewhere.)

2. The new heavy Patriot Defense firing pin is in the gun. I'm hoping that's all that's needed to get it to run 100%.

3. I discovered the photos of my trigger pull weights were unintentionally fudged. I'm at 6 pounds 3.25 ounces in DA and 3 pounds 3 ounces in SA.

I did a test of four different hammer springs tonight. The results of that are here:

4. When I get time to play with it, I'm going to continue to look into driving primers as deep as possible on my Dillon 650. That's the actual cause of all of my issues. If I were loading on a 1050 I'd have been shooting a 100% reliable gun as soon as all the PD parts were dropped into it, weeks ago.

At least this spring test means that I know that if I can't remedy the issue at the press, I can try the Wolff-14 pound spring to hit primers a little harder while only adding a few ounces to the first shot on every stage. I can definitely live with that as a plan B.

5. I should mention that the firing pin block is still absent from my gun. It's going to stay out until it has fired 1,000 trouble-free rounds. I am keeping that variable completely out of the equation until the gun is known to be completely reliable.

Edited December 28, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[johnbu]

I do have a wolff 18 and 22# hammer springs sonewhere.   If you want to realy REALLY hit those primers hard.